Does this explain death?

[Joshe]

When I was maybe 5 or 6, I remember contemplating "why can't I remember what it was like before I was born?" I think I even asked a parent this question and they said something like "because you weren't born yet." lol. As a child, it seemed natural that I had always existed. 

"What was it like before you were born?" An unknowable void.

"What is it like when put under anesthesia?" An unknowable void.

Given the above, I presume death terminates conscious experience, so death is also the unknowable void. 

Isn't it odd that on both sides of your conscious experience is the unknowable void? It's like you just magically sprang from nothing.

But here's the thing: If conscious experience cannot exist in the void, that means all that can exist is conscious experience. Non-existence cannot be known. The only thing that can ever be known is conscious experience or that which occurs in-between the unknowable voids. 

The "knower" never ceases to know. I think this is what they mean when they say "you cannot die". The knower will always be conscious of something. And just look for yourself, the only thing YOU have ever known is something outside the voids. 

Does this make sense? I'm not deep into spiritual study so not sure if this idea or conceptualization has been debunked or found to be flawed but it's the best line of reasoning for the rational mind that I can find that seems to line up with my experience and the highest teachings. 

Is this flawed? 

Edited August 12 by Joshe

[Spiritual Warfare]

It’s not flawed, existence is all that there is

[Breakingthewall]

agree. if you focus totally on this moment, you will see that all that before you are born and when you die is a mental construction. what there is is existence. What was there before I was born? Simply, the same as now, existence, for the reason you have said, the limits at this moment are non-existence, and that does not exist, therefore there are no limits. This moment is unlimited. Things are happening in it, like memories. It could be a flat moment without memories, if you were an amoeba for example, and it would still be the same, existence without limit.

The content is relative, the essence is absolute. That is what you are, existence, not what appears in existence. To meditate is to fully identify with existence and disidentify with what appears. obviously it is not easy because the inertia is the opposite, it is an interesting game, a challenge

Edited August 12 by Breakingthewall

[Hojo]

 

@JosheI think its like that but it will be a slow descent into not knowing. You will still know after death and you will shed your knowing slowly over days weeks month or years even. The void has aware and unaware states so you will be aware shedding yourself while not being able to express yourself but knowing you are and the emotions wont have limits or be able to be stopped they will be God tier emotions without any boundaries. Then you will be there 'sleeping' unable to express anything as the void but you will still be there witnessing the unknowing. Then you will repeat over and over until the shedding of self state and 'sleeping' state of the void become the same state and then you can be reborn! By this time you will have merged with the void and you can start over but you will have forgotten you existed as anything ever before or again.

Its like being put on a time out as a kid and you are not allowed out until you completely settle down and you dont have control over when you will settle down. The key is settling down about it now while you have your senses then you will go to sleep without any struggle and be reborn instantly. Like waking up from a nights rest thats faith in God.

Edited August 12 by Hojo

[Ishanga]

@Joshe Nice Inquiry:)

There is something else that is able to Perceive it seems beyond our normal everyday 5 sense perception and brain that puts it all together with a formed personality and such, as Mystics and Yogi's state they can remember past lives and such, some even say You can be conscious enough to choose which body to reincarnate into when the present body has died, so something is there..

In Karmic theory and Kosha theory, there are 5 sheaths that make up us Humans, Food/Earth Body, Mind/Intelligence Body, Energy Body, Etheric or Transitionary Body (btwn physical/gross state and non physical/subtle state), and Bliss Body (this refers to the experience one has when intouch with this aspect), I'm assuming these sheaths cover the Life that is encased within it, karmic substance keeps it together like a glue of sorts, this is a simple way to explain it, for sure its more complex and complete than this:)

When Your body dies, the karma is stored in the Mental Body and Energy Body and Etheric Body, this along with the Bliss Body go along and are in the "void" of sorts, the after death place, depending on many factors a body is chosen, then this join with that body and the reincarnation has happened and so forth... Most ppl are not conscious of any of this, just like they are not conscious of their subconscious  mind and what is happening there, but the sub conscious mind plays a huge role in your life, so how Aware and Conscious You are in this life will play a huge role in the after life and such situations...

Sadhguru explains it clearly here, don't believe what he says, don't dis believe what he says, research it (not thru books or video) and find out what is truth or not truth...

 

Edited August 12 by Ishanga

[TidalWave]

It sounds a lot like Advaita Vedanta, where ultimately there is only one thing: pure consciousness. 

This kind of spiritual idealism, where consciousness is basically equated with (or fundamental to) existence would be rejected by materialists who argue that consciousness is just a by-product that emerges from the brain, which is just matter. They argue that there isn't 'more' than just matter, or at least there's no evidence.

However this doesn't really account for the fact that much of experience, for example qualia like the  'redness' of the color red are subjective but real nonetheless. Hard to tie back to just matter. Similarly, we are so much engaged with information constantly, but information is not matter. Whatever side you are on, it will always be difficult to understand what bridges the two domains, matter and consciousness, knower and that which is known etc

Edited August 12 by TidalWave

[Oppositionless]

31 minutes ago, Joshe said:

"What is it like when put under anesthesia?" An unknowable void.

 

Maybe there's just an unbroken stream of consciousness . One moment awake before anasthesia, the next awake after anasthesia. If solipsism is true then you can throw out the notion of time passing between those two events.

[Joshe]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! 

[Joshe]

5 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

Maybe there's just an unbroken stream of consciousness . One moment awake before anasthesia, the next awake after anasthesia. If solipsism is true then you can throw out the notion of time passing between those two events.

Very interesting! When I wake up from anesthesia and become aware of or imagine lost time, I suppose I then imagine lost consciousness, which is what I'm calling void. 

Thanks for bringing this up. I never considered the idea of lost consciousness itself being a construct. I was using the concept of time to construct the concept of lost consciousness. 😂 WTF. 

Edited August 13 by Joshe

[UnbornTao]

Speculation aside, I'd say first look into the nature of life. An explanation is not the goal but a direct knowledge. We don't know what this is and each of us has to personally sort it out by having direct experiences.

Edited August 14 by UnbornTao

[Atb210201]

On 12/08/2024 at 10:22 PM, Joshe said:

When I was maybe 5 or 6, I remember contemplating "why can't I remember what it was like before I was born?" I think I even asked a parent this question and they said something like "because you weren't born yet." lol. As a child, it seemed natural that I had always existed. 

"What was it like before you were born?" An unknowable void.

"What is it like when put under anesthesia?" An unknowable void.

Given the above, I presume death terminates conscious experience, so death is also the unknowable void. 

Isn't it odd that on both sides of your conscious experience is the unknowable void? It's like you just magically sprang from nothing.

But here's the thing: If conscious experience cannot exist in the void, that means all that can exist is conscious experience. Non-existence cannot be known. The only thing that can ever be known is conscious experience or that which occurs in-between the unknowable voids. 

The "knower" never ceases to know. I think this is what they mean when they say "you cannot die". The knower will always be conscious of something. And just look for yourself, the only thing YOU have ever known is something outside the voids. 

Does this make sense? I'm not deep into spiritual study so not sure if this idea or conceptualization has been debunked or found to be flawed but it's the best line of reasoning for the rational mind that I can find that seems to line up with my experience and the highest teachings. 

Is this flawed? 

Non duality says

Death is none

Not void and not consciousness

It is something in between

Death is not life and not death it is the unity of these twos

It is not waking and not sleeping It is something beyond both and not even that.

It is not knowable and not unknowable.

It is not being and not non being.

Edited August 13 by Atb210201