what is a woman ?

[Talinn]

If you're yellow and you "side" with green more, then that's because they are generally more positive about things, and not just concerning the trans issue -- but any issue. They're funner to be around even if they can be a little stupid or silly.

That's just how it is. It's really easy to understand how you oranges or blue think about gender because it's how I thought of it when i was 8 or 9.

[ryandesreu]

13 hours ago, Sabth said:

Those who get pregnant and have a kid. 

So, a woman who is infertile or sterile is not a woman, or one who is too old, or one who just chooses not to get pregnant, you're saying is not really a woman?

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That is a point in their favor though.

Yes that’s right.

From that perspective, progressives could be seen as more dangerous to societal stability. They don’t always seem to understand the consequences of what they ask for.

[questionreality]

45 minutes ago, Talinn said:

@questionreality

 Society hurt us even before the 2000's, and this is the response, and if you don't think there should be a response it's because you're afraid of too much personal autonomy and think society can't handle the stress of this new idea. Trans ideology is a response, like any other ideology is, to societal structures that existed prior to our ideology.

There were far more instances of the ideology being "shoved down my throat" that I should be happy the way that I was. The reason why you have to go to the internet to find the culture wars is because you don't even see many transgender people in public in the first place! Who is really shoving down it your throat unless you go online? Maybe at maximum one person asked you to call them a female name when they had a deep voice, and that's shoving stuff down your throat? Let's get real, most people like talking in public about pizza, their puppy or garden, or their annoying co-worker, not the fact that they hate their genitals. It's simply weird to talk about this stuff in public which is why everyone goes online to do it!

Why should we just roll over on our backs like dogs to whatever you say a woman is? I'm not going to roll over and play dead and act like a male just because it threatens your ideas of how a society should function. You don't have Kallmann Syndrome or the makeup of my mind, and I don't think you'd be willing or perhaps able to imagine the initial conditions that create transgender people in the first place.

Trans ideology does share many of the toxic elements that any other ideology has , but this is nothing special. You fixate on it more though because you think it will destabilize or hurt society.

Saying it was "shoved down your throat" carries the implication that it came out of nowhere and we just decided to transify society for no reason. And further, the ideology isn't even always spread by transgender people themselves, there are a lot of other things going on.

There are people who try to convert people to try to respect trans women, sure, but you're also missing the fact that media narratives concerning trans people are often inaccurate. That in short, whatever you think reality is, you're missing many pieces. I have many critiques of the trans community but you just don't understand these issues clearly.

I don't think you get it.

You can be trans all you want, just don't promote this shit in schools, and have kids transition when they are 7 year old, have them take puberty blockers, etc. 

Leave the women sports and don't compete with them , because as a biological male you have a clear advantage (see boxing in France).

People also don't want this shit promoted in olympics, song festivals (see euro vision), etc.

This is what I mean by being "shoved down our throats", a lot of people who even support your cause have gotten tired of it.

Understand?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, questionreality said:

because as a biological male you have a clear advantage (see boxing in France).

Fact check: Boxing in France did not involve a trans athlete.

[Talinn]

5 minutes ago, questionreality said:

I don't think you get it.

You can be trans all you want, just don't promote this shit in schools, and have kids transition when they are 7 year old, have them take puberty blockers, etc. 

Leave the women sports and don't compete with them , because as a biological male you have a clear advantage (see boxing in France).

People also don't want this shit promoted in olympics, song festivals (see euro vision), etc.

This is what I mean by being "shoved down our throats", a lot of people who even support your cause have gotten tired of it.

Understand?

Afraid to say that when I was in high school, and had no testosterone running Cross Country, the XY chromosomes conferred no innate advantage ...I was 17 years old and attempted to run a 5k race in under 25 minutes and could barely get to 26:00 on flat terrain (I was in Colorado so we had a variety of races, in the mountains and in the plains). The girls were running like 21-23 minutes and didn't pass out and almost go to the ambulance from trying so hard, as I did. Due to having no testosterone due to my genetic disorder I just couldn't run as fast as the girls no matter how hard I tried, but man those XY chromosomes sure did give me an advantage over them. I guess 26 minutes is a faster time than 21-23 minutes, my bad.

I agree that transgender issues shouldn't be addressed in public schools, probably not even in high school.

Puberty blockers are pretty harmless if taken for a short time in conjunction with no other cross-hormones, and the science will get better with this. You think of testosterone and estrogen as immense cosmic forces but they're really just substances both of which I saw firsthand and they're simultaneously not as scary as you think as they are, and more potent than you realize my man. 7 years old aren't given puberty blockers that much either.

Not going to reply to your other culture war stuff because it's mostly irrelevant.

[Nemra]

17 minutes ago, questionreality said:

You can be trans all you want, just don't promote this shit in schools, and have kids transition when they are 7 year old, have them take puberty blockers, etc. 

Have you thought about that maybe heteronormative lifestyles are being promoted to kids?

17 minutes ago, questionreality said:

Leave the women sports and don't compete with them , because as a biological male you have a clear advantage (see boxing in France).

She wasn't trans. 😅

Edited August 12 by Nemra

[Girzo]

18 minutes ago, questionreality said:

You can be trans all you want, just don't promote this shit in schools, and have kids transition when they are 7 year old, have them take puberty blockers, etc. 

You live in some alternate reality man. Teaching kids such concepts as gender in an age appropriate manner is not going to make them take puberty blockers en masse. If anything it will aid them in being better thinkers and more socially-aware citizens in the future.

Edited August 12 by Girzo

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, questionreality said:

I am not an expert on spiral dynamics, but I can clearly see that yellow can see both perspectives of blue/orange, and also green, plus their limitations.

One ability is to be intellectually aware of a model in which one mode of cognition can see and understand other modes of cognition. It is another ability to actually be fluent in that mode of cognition. There are trade-offs for different modes of cognition. I've paid some large prices in my life to gain that ability. As well, I've lost abilities in the process. . . With the cognition you utilize, you are able to relate to things in ways I am no longer able to do. I can see that. Similarly, with the modes of cognition I utilize, I am able to relate to things in ways you are unable to do. Yet you cannot see that. 

One of the blocks to expansion is being immersed within a particular mindset. There are both advantages and disadvantages to that.. . . There are lots of dynamics that keep a mind contracted, such as attachments and identifications. For example, if I said that you are speaking English right now and are not fluent in Mandarin - I predict that you would be OK with that. You would be aware that your cognition utilizes the English language and there is awareness that there is another language, Mandarin, that you are not fluent in. Yet if said that you speak Blue/Orange and are not fluent in Yellow, I predict you would have a very different response. 

 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only cause you are a good mom.

Thank you!

[Talinn]

15 minutes ago, Girzo said:

You live in some alternate reality man. Teaching kids such concepts as gender in an age appropriate manner is not going to make them take puberty blockers en masse. If anything it will aid them in being better thinkers and more socially-aware citizens in the future.

It will help in some instances, but I'm perfectly willing to cede this area to the right.  I don't how much it helps the trans community in general anyway, it seems to backfire in some damaging ways. Let the schools be free of transgender stuff and don't cede another inch elsewhere. Sports are case-by-case basis.

[Nemra]

8 minutes ago, nuwu said:

o-ok but what if your child was born as mini hitler with a moustache would you still love him

Or a demon.

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What if your kid was born a bat-boy? Would you still love him?

I have a bat-boy kid and I must admit I love him the least, not because he's a bat-boy but because he used to piss on the carpet a lot and I've never gotten over it 

[questionreality]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Fact check: Boxing in France did not involve a trans athlete.

My bad. Never the less it's still an issue and trans women should not compete with women.

[questionreality]

4 hours ago, Talinn said:

I agree that transgender issues shouldn't be addressed in public schools, probably not even in high school.

Puberty blockers are pretty harmless if taken for a short time in conjunction with no other cross-hormones, and the science will get better with this. You think of testosterone and estrogen as immense cosmic forces but they're really just substances both of which I saw firsthand and they're simultaneously not as scary as you think as they are, and more potent than you realize my man. 7 years old aren't given puberty blockers that much either.

Not going to reply to your other culture war stuff because it's mostly irrelevant.

It's not that the puberty blockers are scary, it's the fact that they are kids and they are clearly not in position to make that decision that young. And the scariest part, is that they are even being encouraged to do so!

Kids can be influenced in many different ways, and transitioning should be the last case scenario for them.

Perhaps you can understand that many are outraged, not because they are transphobic (some are of course), but simply due to things like this.

 

[Talinn]

57 minutes ago, questionreality said:

It's not that the puberty blockers are scary, it's the fact that they are kids and they are clearly not in position to make that decision that young. And the scariest part, is that they are even being encouraged to do so!

Kids can be influenced in many different ways, and transitioning should be the last case scenario for them.

Perhaps you can understand that many are outraged, not because they are transphobic (some are of course), but simply due to things like this.

 

So where's the possibility that a kid takes a puberty blocker for two weeks and then drops it, deciding he or she isn't trans? Is this a scary possibility? It seems like you have some inherent fear of puberty blockers due to the media narrative around them, not because they're inherently very bad for children.

There are toxic LGBT obsessed, narcissistic weird parents that might actively want their child to be trans and try to brainwash them into becoming trans, I'm sure they exist. But they're outnumbered 5 to 1 at least by parents who abhor trans people, who frankly want to see us dead in some corner of their mind. There's real fear to the process of coming out in virtually every trans person, because they think their family will react poorly.  A lot of people won't even bother coming out. The amount of hate you get for being trans frankly feels slightly higher than whatever portions of society encourage you to be yourself.

Again, who is encouraging anyone to transition?

If a trans child even has supportive enough parents to let them go on  puberty blockers (even after extensive deliberation and thought, careful planning), chances are just as good that they'll go on puberty blockers as they'll brood in some version of depression, not doing anything about the gender dysphoria. Of course social contagion is a problem, but it's just statistically impossible that *every* trans youth who thinks he or she is trans' first impulse is "let's go to the pharmacy and make my LGBT friendly parents go get me some puberty blockers!"

Something non-trans people don't realize is that it is usually a loooong process. If your mind was playing games with you and you're not really trans, chances are good that you'll stop yourself from doing real and serious damage. Because it's not uncommon for it to take 10+ years.. The very length of the process filters peoples out, not to much the money involved.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, questionreality said:

Never the less it's still an issue and trans women should not compete with women.

I agree with that.

Pro sports should have hormone level cutoffs.

Edited August 13 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, questionreality said:

It's not that the puberty blockers are scary, it's the fact that they are kids and they are clearly not in position to make that decision that young. And the scariest part, is that they are even being encouraged to do so!

Kids can be influenced in many different ways, and transitioning should be the last case scenario for them.

Perhaps you can understand that many are outraged, not because they are transphobic (some are of course), but simply due to things like this.

Out of the 73-million kids in the United States under 18... how many kids in the US do you believe are on puberty blockers? On HRT? Having top surgery? Having bottom surgery?

I'll give you a hint. It's a fraction of a fraction of a percentage point.

If you want the numbers... you can check out this Reuters article...

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

 

[Talinn]

I didn't even think it was that low.. but it makes sense. To go to a doctor to get hormone blockers you have to pull your kid out of school, miss work potentially to go to the doctors, then the parent has to pay for that etc. etc.

I don't know, the narrative that you just get puberty blockers and these other things without any effort is just so annoyingly false. These things don't just land on your door. But perhaps I'm starting to beat a dead horse.

[Emotionalmosquito]

Anyone who was born female or wants to be. Basically anyone who wants to be is.