what is a woman ?

[Forestluv]

In terms of Spiral Dynamics, this thread is a good example of Yellow interacting with Blue/Orange. It's interesting to observe the gaps and what prevents bridging gaps.

[gettoefl]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My empathy is in helping your mind not fall into self-deception.

If you don't understand that, you missed everything I ever did.

come here for this ❤

[questionreality]

Just now, Forestluv said:

In terms of Spiral Dynamics, this thread is a good example of Yellow interacting with Blue/Orange. It's interesting to observe the gaps and what prevents bridging gaps.

It can be argued that yellow can easily be in agreement with blue/orange on this one (but for different reasons), given that it can see how impractical and counter-intuitive it would be to tell people that male/female is just a construct. 

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

fine and dandy but when i have no argument and want to impose my will all i need say is

sorry but on this i need to protect my kids and so a woman is who i and my tradition says she is

sorry but i will die for my kids if i have to

What do your kids have to do with anything?

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, questionreality said:

It can be argued that yellow can easily be in agreement with blue/orange on this one (but for different reasons), given that it can see how impractical and counter-intuitive it would be to tell people that male/female is just a construct. 

Trying to look at Yellow through a blue/orange lens yields a distorted view of Yellow. . . Yellow is a different form of cognition and cannot be understood from a blue/orange mindset. 

Expanding from a Blue/Orange mindset can be extremely challenging and I've become fascinated by mental dynamics that keep a mind contracted. I've observed several within this thread.

Edited August 12 by Forestluv

[gettoefl]

15 minutes ago, Emerald said:

What do your kids have to do with anything?

are you serious? do you know what i won't do to protect my (future) kids from harm?

nothing 

Edited August 12 by gettoefl

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

are you serious? do you know what i won't do to protect my (future) kids from harm?

nothing 

So, you don't even have kids?

And yet you're making up stories in your imagination about trans people's existence being a danger to your imaginary kids?

And you're also playing through a movie in your mind of dying to protect your imaginary kids from trans people? 

Isn't that silly?

As someone who ACTUALLY has kids, the only thing that the widespread acceptance of trans people (and the questioning of the absoluteness of gender identity) has done is to make them far more kind and conscious than I was as a child to those in the LGBTQ community... and far less boxed into notions of how they should and shouldn't be based off of rigid gender roles.

[Leo Gura]

What if your kid was born a bat-boy? Would you still love him?

Edited August 12 by Leo Gura

[ICURBlessings]

To have a cohesive discussion between open minds gifted of a certain spiritual intelligence... we need to agree on the reason we are asking/answering the question:

What is a woman ?

What is the purpose and function of the question?

If it is to produce a definition for a school-book in Biology...

it will be different than if we are talking about political issues such the right to vote...

it will be different than if we are talking about self-identification issues...

it will be different than if we are talking about genetics...

 

Let's agree on the motive we want this question to be used for.

[fortifyacacia3]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Destiny visited Actualized.org and this thread on his stream the other day, at 6:24

 

Edited August 12 by fortifyacacia3

[Talinn]

@questionreality

18 minutes ago, questionreality said:

If this was true, there wouldn't be such a huge backlash. Pretending that this ideology is not being pushed downs people's throats is just plain dishonest.

And again, you make it sound like only the people on the right have an issue with it, which cannot be further from the truth.

There are many more than you think who are on the left, who do not agree with these woke ideas.

 

 

 Society hurt us even before the 2000's, and this is the response, and if you don't think there should be a response it's because you're afraid of too much personal autonomy and think society can't handle the stress of this new idea. Trans ideology is a response, like any other ideology is, to societal structures that existed prior to our ideology.

There were far more instances of the ideology being "shoved down my throat" that I should be happy the way that I was. The reason why you have to go to the internet to find the culture wars is because you don't even see many transgender people in public in the first place! Who is really shoving down it your throat unless you go online? Maybe at maximum one person asked you to call them a female name when they had a deep voice, and that's shoving stuff down your throat? Let's get real, most people like talking in public about pizza, their puppy or garden, or their annoying co-worker, not the fact that they hate their genitals. It's simply weird to talk about this stuff in public which is why everyone goes online to do it!

Why should we just roll over on our backs like dogs to whatever you say a woman is? I'm not going to roll over and play dead and act like a male just because it threatens your ideas of how a society should function. You don't have Kallmann Syndrome or the makeup of my mind, and I don't think you'd be willing or perhaps able to imagine the initial conditions that create transgender people in the first place.

Trans ideology does share many of the toxic elements that any other ideology has , but this is nothing special. You fixate on it more though because you think it will destabilize or hurt society.

Saying it was "shoved down your throat" carries the implication that it came out of nowhere and we just decided to transify society for no reason. And further, the ideology isn't even always spread by transgender people themselves, there are a lot of other things going on.

There are people who try to convert people to try to respect trans women, sure, but you're also missing the fact that media narratives concerning trans people are often inaccurate. That in short, whatever you think reality is, you're missing many pieces. I have many critiques of the trans community but you just don't understand these issues clearly.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

If you go far enough in the deconstruction route then you will have to believe that even Kamala Harris doesn't exist in reality and that Kamala isn't an objective fact of reality.

If it suited their purposes, conservatives would deny that Kamala was black. Which is what Trump literally did last week.

Post-truth indeed.

Edited August 12 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What if your kid was born a bat-boy? Would you still love him?

Is this directed to me? 

If it was... yes! I'd still be absolutely batty about him!

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

My empathy is in helping your mind not fall into self-deception.

Oh yes, the ultimate high cognitive love

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Is this directed to me? 

If it was... yes! I'd still be absolutely batty about him!

That's only cause you are a good mom.

[Majed]

@Leo Gura leo can you answer my question in the spirituality section the thread is called " i was meditating and i realized what death is" 

[Talinn]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Trying to look at Yellow through a blue/orange lens yields a distorted view of Yellow. . . Yellow is a different form of cognition and cannot be understood from a blue/orange mindset. 

Expanding from a Blue/Orange mindset can be extremely challenging and I've become fascinated by mental dynamics that keep a mind contracted. I've observed several within this thread.

At least a little rhetoric towards transgender people within society is pure red... Follow a line of reasoning within Project 2025

1) classify all transgender people as pedophiles (in one section of the document)
2) recommend sentencing of all pedophiles to execution (in another seection of the document)
3) voila, institutionalized violence against transgender people

I prefer to not follow this fear-based line of speculation too closely, and there are many guardrails against this of course, but at the same time the rhetoric is there. Remember that it was only in the 1940's that FDR started the incarceration of Japanese Americans. I don't see it as likely at all, but at the same time I'm aware of history.

I'd like to think of myself as a yellow-stage thinker, but in reality I have to work through some of this fear-based (sort-of) nonsense myself...

 

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only cause you are a good mom.

+

Glad there's some people like Emerald

Edited August 12 by Talinn

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

But I can't allow bending of Truth with weird mental gymnastics. This will lead to collapse of society if left unmitigated.

Bending of the truth IS exactly how society is able to currently function.

Conservatives are defending the bullshit glue that holds everything together.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, aurum said:

Conservatives are defending the bullshit glue that holds everything together.

That is a point in their favor though.

You don't wanna see what things would look like if it all fell apart.

Edited August 12 by Leo Gura

[questionreality]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

Trying to look at Yellow through a blue/orange lens yields a distorted view of Yellow. . . Yellow is a different form of cognition and cannot be understood from a blue/orange mindset. 

Expanding from a Blue/Orange mindset can be extremely challenging and I've become fascinated by mental dynamics that keep a mind contracted. I've observed several within this thread.

I am not an expert on spiral dynamics, but I can clearly see that yellow can see both perspectives of blue/orange, and also green, plus their limitations.

You cannot tell me that every single person who belongs to yellow would actually side with green and some of the talking points that were pointed out here. 

Not to mention that not all green people would even be in agreement here.

Please red again my exchange with LEO to understand the dangers of the "construction" narrative.