Wilber On Solipsism

[OBEler]

The difference is, before solipsism you interacted with an outside reality, after you interact inside yourself. And for you there is just you.

So the world doesn't disappear it gets recontextualized.You are just doing philosophy my friend, as I knew it the whole time.

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

The difference is, before solipsism you interacted with an outside reality, after you interact inside yourself. 

You just repeated what You said . I asked you to break this down further. 

What does it mean to "interact inside yourself "? If a monster is attacking you in a nightmare you can't be like "oh there is no reason  to freak out because this monster is me and this is all my imagination ". NO! You first have to become lucid to grasp this .

Likewise..in " real life " so to speak ..if a dog is attacking you and you've grasped solipsism theoretically or experientially you can't be like "oh there is no reason to freak out because this dog is my imagination "NO!.

I will say it again ..as long as you are inside the dream and there seems to be separation between you and the world then you can't "solipsise " your way In the world.  You must act as if the world is other than you. 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

recontextualized.You are just doing philosophy my friend,

What is wrong with philosophy, my friend ?

[OBEler]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

What is wrong with philosophy, my friend ?

Nothing, but experience is another level.

You can philosophy your way to truth but you still just hold a concept in your mind. That's not experience. Although philosophy can lead to experience but mostly it stays at theory level.

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

You just repeated what You said . I asked you to break this down further. 

What does it mean to "interact inside yourself "? If a monster is attacking you in a nightmare you can't be like "oh there is no reason  to freak out because this monster is me and this is all my imagination ". NO! You first have to become lucid to grasp this .

Likewise..in " real life " so to speak ..if a dog is attacking you and you've grasped solipsism theoretically or experientially you can't be like "oh there is no reason to freak out because this dog is my imagination "NO!.

I will say it again ..as long as you are inside the dream and there seems to be separation between you and the world then you can't "solipsise " your way In the world.  You must act as if the world is other than you. 

That's why it doesn't make any sense.. Davino recently shared an definition of Solipsism that I agree with, basically it recognizes the existence of Form, that there is Form in the world, this is different meaning than Appearance but that word can be used as well, since we are only here for a very short period of time compared to the Earth's history, so we do "Appear" then disappear.  

But this notion or ideology that everything is "Me" is narcissistic in many ways, the wording is completely inappropriate, the wording should be I experience everything as One, when You say it is "Me" then how do I fit into Your world??? Will You care about anything else other than this "Me"?? So I think there is Oneness, Completeness, Absolute, and we are the forms that come about from that Absolute as an Expression of Potential, we explore this Potential as Human, on this level of Realization there are different Forms and Individuals, this creates Duality, too allow Experience to arise (there is no Experience in Absolute), and from this Experiential realm we live different and separate lives, but can come back to this Experience of One if we strive for it and Experience it as a top level of Experience, and still function in this world of Duality and Form easily...

[OBEler]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You just repeated what You said . I asked you to break this down further. 

What does it mean to "interact inside yourself "? If a monster is attacking you in a nightmare you can't be like "oh there is no reason  to freak out because this monster is me and this is all my imagination ". NO! You first have to become lucid to grasp this .

Likewise..in " real life " so to speak ..if a dog is attacking you and you've grasped solipsism theoretically or experientially you can't be like "oh there is no reason to freak out because this dog is my imagination "NO!.

I will say it again ..as long as you are inside the dream and there seems to be separation between you and the world then you can't "solipsise " your way In the world.  You must act as if the world is other than you. 

What I say is you can act as if the world is not other than you. But there is no acting then really because everything is you. You will experience that the world is you. So whatever the human body does it's just in the flow with everything else. No one acts really.

If you are not awakened to solipsism your dreams will also not be solipsistic.

 

[Ishanga]

If there is no Experience then what is Life about, why are we/you/me here, and what is this about, if You cannot Experience.

If Experience is real, then why are any questions being raised to whomever, and especially towards Leo the leader here, if You are just One and Imagining everything else, what is the need for questions and answers and Sharing for that matter, whom are you sharing with if its not real??

 

[OBEler]

@Ishanga I am not awakened but you imagine everyone here having this discussion. You are sharing it with yourself 

 

 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga I am not awakened but you imagine everyone here having this discussion. You are sharing it with yourself 

 

 

Not on this level of Existence, its well established that there are levels to everything, that is why Leo does what he does, share videos and courses for those in need at certain levels, on this level of existence there is a "You" and "Me", in absolute level there is none of this, we are not there as we have Bodies and Mind and everything else to deal with, if You exclude those things then Your in lala land, life will bite You for sure, suffering will be the result.. 

[BlueOak]

11 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Not on this level of Existence, its well established that there are levels to everything, that is why Leo does what he does, share videos and courses for those in need at certain levels, on this level of existence there is a "You" and "Me", in absolute level there is none of this, we are not there as we have Bodies and Mind and everything else to deal with, if You exclude those things then Your in lala land, life will bite You for sure, suffering will be the result.. 

Let me give this a shot.

Hunger: Get Food: No Hunger. 

You call the being getting hungry YOU, and then you define what YOU means. But that definition doesn't exist anywhere, you can't point it out to me. There is just the experience of being hungry, and then eating, to not feel hungry.

Then you see someone else and say other, then define what other means. You can point to a second body sure, but anything beyond the physical sensation of something in front of you is all made up in your head.

You could say Me and You. Us. Them. Two People. Two entities. Begins. Pair. Group. etc. It would just be a label.

We add so much that doesn't actually exist, and it tends to complicate life the more we add. The simpler we make it, the simpler life is. I use the words you and me because that's understood (and quite simple) in the experience, I realise I am talking to myself. I will take what you say give it meaning, and then react to myself, I know this logically and experience how I alter conversations along often predictable patterns.

We can call them levels if it helps, I understand there is a level beyond that, I understand and experience emotion manifesting the flavor of the experience that's fairly easy to demonstrate to most people, but it also assists in creating even out of the blue changes, let alone altering the pattern being run.

What you are experiencing is yourself. Always.

The torus model runs forever, that's why it's quite useful for demonstration.

 

Edited August 12 by BlueOak

[OBEler]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Not on this level of Existence, its well established that there are levels to everything, that is why Leo does what he does, share videos and courses for those in need at certain levels, on this level of existence there is a "You" and "Me", in absolute level there is none of this, we are not there as we have Bodies and Mind and everything else to deal with, if You exclude those things then Your in lala land, life will bite You for sure, suffering will be the result.. 

Nope. There is not "not on this level". Truth is there all the times. And you can live with the truth so your talking about lala land and suffering at the end is misleading.

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, BlueOak said:

Let me give this a shot.

Hunger: Get Food: No Hunger. 

You call the being getting hungry YOU, and then you define what YOU means. But that definition doesn't exist anywhere, you can't point it out to me. There is just the experience of being hungry, and then eating, to not feel hungry.

Then you see someone else and say other, then define what other means. You can point to a second body sure, but anything beyond the physical is all made up in your head.

You could say Me and You. Us. Them. Two People. Two entities. Begins. Pair. Group. etc. It would just be a label.

We add so much that doesn't actually exist, and it tends to complicate life the more we add. The simpler we make it, the simpler life is. I use the words you and me because that's understood (and quite simple) in the experience, I realise I am talking to myself. I will take what you say give it meaning, and then react to myself, I know this logically and experience how I alter conversations along often predictable patterns.

We can call them levels if it helps, I understand there is a level beyond that, I understand and experience emotion manifesting the flavor of the experience that's fairly easy to demonstrate to most people, but it also assists in creating even out of the blue changes, let alone altering the pattern being run.

What you are experiencing is yourself. Always.

 

I agree in a way, as all Experience is happening within Me, in a certain way I am the center of the Universe is Me as when Experience stops (Deep Sleep) the world does not exist, it then exists when I wake up, senses start up again bla bla bla...

I agree that projections exist via our mind and how we think and interpret and perceive things outside our senes body complex, but there is the other in way, other life, other ppl, other planets and solar systems and such, on the physical level only, which is why I look at existence as Gross to Subtle, Gross is here on Earth and Universe plane, everything our 5 senses can perceive, Subtlest is Absolute, there is no perception there, no experience there, no anything other than One, Potential/Possibility, which is why we have to be as we are here, Dual World, Materialism, Survival, Senses/Perception and Experience via our Human System, which is unique in a way for all of us, its the same in many ways but complex and unique as well, this is how the Absolute gets to know itself, via Experience, via Humans and maybe other life forms elsewhere...

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Nope. There is not "not on this level". Truth is there all the times. And you can live with the truth so your talking about lala land and suffering at the end is misleading.

I agree in a way, as we can "Live via the Absolute" as an Experience, but we can also not live that as an Experience, just go to the mental health forum, see what is happening there, they Experience it differently..

You see you guys are excluding Experience, you just looking at Absolute and it a formula for You, if you exclude Experience then it works, but if You include Experience it falls short...

If there is no Experience, then what is Life, why are You asking Leo at every chance questions upon questions, why needing answers if You have No Experience? You need the answers to enhance Your Experience, hence You have Experience, which I am not aware of, hence there is difference and levels and such distinctions!. 

Edited August 12 by Ishanga

[OBEler]

@Ishanga "but there is the other in way, other life, other ppl, other planets and solar systems and such, on the physical level only, which is why I look at existence as Gross to Subtle, Gross is here on Earth and Universe plane, "

How do you know there are other people, planets and solar systems? Because you read it in an imaginary book? Or your imaginary sadghuru told you so?

You have just assumptions and these are hold in your imagination.like everything else 

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga "but there is the other in way, other life, other ppl, other planets and solar systems and such, on the physical level only, which is why I look at existence as Gross to Subtle, Gross is here on Earth and Universe plane, "

How do you know there are other people, planets and solar systems? Because you read it in an imaginary book? Or your imaginary sadghuru told you so?

I perceive them via my 5 senses lol, my wife is right beside me, I can touch, feel, smell and hear her, its real enough, who are you to say otherwise, maybe ask Leo, he can answer that for You since You can't wait for him to answer your questions, lol... Your showing your true colors dude, and its a joke!

[OBEler]

6 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I perceive them via my 5 senses lol, my wife is right beside me, I can touch, feel, smell and hear her, its real enough, who are you to say otherwise, maybe ask Leo, he can answer that for You since You can't wait for him to answer your questions, lol... Your showing your true colors dude, and its a joke!

Dude, I asked this question to help you to realize that it's all an assumption you have. You are too deep stuck in delusions, and I try to help you with my question out.

I know already the answer.its all imagination.

And don't let your imaginary wife next to you comfort you with the 5 imaginary sensations you have. 

One more hint:did your wive never appeared in your dream ? With how many senses could you feel her? Does it needs to have 5 senses so you claim it as real? 

 

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Dude, I asked this question to help you to realize that it's all an assumption you have. You are too deep stuck in delusions, and I try to help you with my question out.

I know already the answer.its all imagination 

Your a lacky like Davino, you assumed the personality of Your Leader Leo, you think Your higher up, at a level of something, so You say what You say above like a hypocrite...Anything You say has no credibility with me, but continue to say whatever and stay on here for hours debating and posting, it goes around in circle jerk of nothing, it means really nothing, this is entertainment, and a test for me, ego gets poked and perceive it and respond, sometimes I fail, sometimes I succeed, for You it seems like it is much more than that, good luck with it:) 

[OBEler]

@Ishanga this has nothing to do with leo. you don't want your wife to be imaginary. 

Again, really think about: can you really count on your senses. And do you have senses in your dream? Can you then really tell that if you experience something with your senses that it's not your imagination at play?

Answer in all honesty, it's not about right or wrong here.

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga this has nothing to do with leo. you don't want your wife to be imaginary. 

Again, really think about: can you really count on your senses. And do you have senses in your dream? Can you then really tell that if you experience something with your senses that it's not your imagination at play?

Answer in all honesty, it's not about right or wrong here.

I'm not intellectual giant lol, but the above is just ridiculous. 

Just go out for a drive, don't use Your 5 senses, don't trust them, tell me what happens???

You can't see You Adulation towards Leo, because Your caught up in it, I have space to see it, You say you see it with me and with Sadhguru, its okay up to a point, I have reasons why I do this with him, but I don't watch his video's much anymore and don't participate on any of his forums if they have one, your right here daily for hours, and when  You get his attention its like a kitten licking up milk lol, your extracting from him the answers to your questions, you think only he can answer because you put him in a place in your mind, its very obvious!

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Learn what I learned and just don't push solipsism on people. If they don't want it, it ain't for them to know.

Edited August 12 by Leo Gura