Wilber On Solipsism

[BlessedLion]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Surmised is not direct consciousness.

Alright, I'm just trying to get clear on your definition of Solopsism, as I haven't heard of it anywhere else, nor have I experienced it. I mean I could see how I COULD get myself to think that (everyone is imaginary, I'm the only conscious being) but I don't think that makes it True

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Wilber (small circle on the podium) is telling the other small circles in the audience how it's possible to experience yourself as the big circle and feeling alone in that because there is only one big circle. That doesn't mean the smaller circles are all empty. They are still within the same larger circle. In that sense, the larger circle is imagining them. The problem is that the smaller circles are largely separate, so it's hard to communicate between them, and certainly to communicate things about the bigger circle.

THANK YOU!

This is exactly what I am talking about, agree with this take on "solopsism"

 

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

This is exactly what Wilber said , directly from No Boundary ——

 

This is what classic solipsism looks like. Teachers like Bashar, Rupert Spira and many others are pointing to this realization. 

Other forms of solipsism are never talked about except by heavy psychedelic users. What other proof is needed to see that this insight is a product of slowly losing touch with reality.

Edited August 12 by Salvijus

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura we all think like classic solipsism.

Can you once and for all clarify what your version of Solipsism is? 

First you were agreeing about ken wilbers version of solipsism based on the video. Now you disagree because in his book he write it more in detail.

So what exactly is your version of solipsism. And not just one zen- sentence again where you can interpret. Best way would be using the example with the picture of small circles of podium and audience.

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Can you once and for all clarify what your version of Solipsism is? 

I don't really want to. Sorry.

People are not mature enough to handle it.

[Water by the River]

4 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Alright, I'm just trying to get clear on your definition of Solopsism, as I haven't heard of it anywhere else, nor have I experienced it. I mean I could see how I COULD get myself to think that (everyone is imaginary, I'm the only conscious being) but I don't think that makes it True

One can only get it when it is realized that any separate identity is false and just a wrong arising thought/feeling/concept in Infinite Being/Reality/mindstream (like 1 + 1 = 3. Just not the case).

For that to happen, the mindstream needs to conform to Absolute Reality of Infinite Being/Consciousness/Suchness. Among others, the most important ones are:

• Nondual: Boundless infinite "field" or better Reality of the visual field
• Infinite: Nothing could ever be outside of it (for example other perspectives/beings that YOU forget right now in real time, although they happen in True You). Everything can only be IT.
• Mere appearance/illusion: Every appearance of the "world" is just empty mere appearance, hovering like a non-solid hologram ("clear light", mere appearance-emptiness) in YOUR True Infinite Being.
• Eternal: The appearance in that Infinite field/Reality changes, but never THAT. That can't go anywhere else. And since IT is nothing (or better: Infinite Nothingness but with the potential for sentience if appearance arises in it, made of it) already, that Reality can't disappear (field is not so correct, since True Being is dimensionless... Its not 3D or 5D, but CONTAINS all possible dimensions, however many dimensions manifest (3/4/5/n/alien/totally other/n+1). Lets call it Infinite Vastness)
•  All ignorant/wrong concept/believes/feelings of being anything separate (mind, body, soul, whatever)  seen through: are just a thought/feeling-arising-bundle arising within IT, and ignorantly believed because ones speed of awareness is too slow to cut off these illusions in real-time.

Only then does one have a chance of realizing True Solipsism (although I don't like that as teaching tool, because its incomprehensible until it happens, and lead nowhere as practice), or True Enlightenment. One without a second. So its fruitless to think with a separate-self still well and alive about Solipsism, that will never "go anywhere". It is impossible. But getting the Mindstream to conform the the enlightened Mindstream (points above) so that this realization can happen, that can be done, and that is worth the effort. Then the realization can happen. My preferred and recommended tools are Mahamudra PotgW, Yoga of One Taste (for the Nondual points above, 1-4), and Yoga of Nonmeditation (to fully establish point 5, and to get rid of the meditator still "running" points 1-4.

Selling Water by the River

 

PS: When Wilber wrote No Boundary, he didn't have Full Enlightenment, just some Kenshos. But not full impersonal Enlightenment, according to his own statements. His true impersonal Enlightenment (or death of the illusion of the separate-self) happened while writing Sex, Ecology, Spirituality, and how that went down is described in One Taste. "Realizing that the separate self (of any kind) doesn't exist (beyond a mere appearing illusion), did never exist, and will or could never exist".

PSPS: Problems start when remnants of the separate self hijack the identity of/as "Absolute Solipsism". That would be something like the Infinity of Gods(-Egos). Does that sound like One Being, Solipsism? Or more like an Infinity of God-Egos inflated and projected on Infinity.The true intuition that there is only One Reality/Being, but that not cleansed from separate-self/ego/personality-elements. Hence, no stable nondual realization in daily life with the 5 points of Awakened Nondual Awareness above accessible anytime.

That confusion can be similiar to the stage of Yoga of One Taste, which already brings Nondual States (like psychedelics also do), but Enlightenment doesn't happen there yet, because the remaining separate-self is not cleansed via the Yoga of Nonmeditation. It is not truly impersonal yet. True Being is utterly utterly impersonal (hence, IT fits into all individual mindstreams), and yet contains the personality and its individual traits arising within IT. And that is what you truly are. So nothing than an illusion of being something else than THAT is lost.

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't really want to. Sorry.

People are not mature enough to handle it.

You underestimate us. Even kids can handle hardcore versions of solipsism. If your version of solipsism is true then our psyche is through evolution already programmed to handle this truth and go on.

Back then you introduced us to solipsism which first time hearing was indeed destabilizing, also because of your radical way of explaining things. But now years have passed and we had 100 of solipsism threads. Everyone has now already heard about one version or another of solipsism. So your version (even if it's the most radical that no consciousness is behind anyone including your own and you are completely alone) will not shock so anymore.

My girlfriend is spiritual gifted and took Malt, thanks to that she lives in solipsism.I never told her anything about you and your teachings. But even she is fine with that after a little integration. Nothing really changes in terms of going on with mundane life.

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't really want to. Sorry.

People are not mature enough to handle it.

I am grateful for your video though.

It has bought great peace and sanity to my existence. 

It's the only fundamental indestructible Truth that I ever came across.

[Bobby_2021]

Guys if there is one thing you should figure out on your own it's solipsism. No one can help you figure it out (no pun intended) other than grokking it through it for hours on end.

Even then you will end up in weird and twisted places that's so uncomfortably dangerous. But the end of the road is so peaceful, no that I reached it. But I just know it is.

[BlueOak]

Hopefully this helps:




 

In various orders, but always together.

The logical mind trying to draw circles where it is not is fun, but there are no circles, no mind, no individuals or collective either. Whatever model you focus on becomes your frame for reality.

Truly there is just this. |                                                        | and this moment right here you are now having. Until leo or another part of me can convince me this moment doesn't exist, I will believe that now is all that exists.

Consciousness would be a concept, yes but then so is everything else, including the words or implication (everything else).  It's true that this is all bricks you put together to understand reality in the way you wish, but that changes nothing, it always has been. 

Edited August 12 by BlueOak

[Breakingthewall]

Solipsism is wrong because it implies that linear time is real. That is to say, that the entirety of existence is me typing on my phone now, and that later it will be something else and before it was something else, since it cannot be two things at the same time, it has to be one thing after another. That's wrong, limited.

Solipsism is real in the sense that if you completely leave the relative and place yourself in the absolute, there is only that, but there are infinite relatives at the same time because time is a relative creation, it is not absolute, the absolute is timeless, The relative is temporal, so there are infinite simultaneous temporal experiences, which can be revealed as illusory, but as illusions they are separate. 

[Breakingthewall]

In other words, the separation is illusory. The people you see on the street are not separate from you, they are the absolute, like you. Separation and form are appearance, but appearances occur. I am not imagining the people on the street because I am an appearance that occurs in the absolute, and so are they. We are all one, and our forms burst like a soap bubble revealing apparent, but apparently, infinite perspectives of infinity are taking place. 

 

[Leo Gura]

I am inventing a new worldview. It is called allipsism, wherein everyone else is real except you.

None of you galaxy-brains dared to imagine that before.

Edited August 12 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura solipsism is true but not practical. 

While a person may be philosophically solipsistic..or adopt solipsism convinced that it is indeed the accurate metaphysical worlview .. he will still behave as empiricist .we act as if we believe in the objective reality of an external world..and no amount of "solipsising " will ever change that .

 

[OBEler]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Leo Gura solipsism is true but not practical. 

While a person may be philosophically solipsistic..or adopt solipsism convinced that it is indeed the accurate metaphysical worlview .. he will still behave as empiricist .we act as if we believe in the objective reality of an external world..and no amount of "solipsising " will ever change that .

 

That's maybe for those like you who never really had an awakening to solipsism but just do philosophy. You are not awakened at all like you claimed.

You will not act if you believe in the objective reality of an external world. From the outside it may see so but not from your perspective. You will interact with yourself 24 hours.

 

Edited August 12 by OBEler

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am inventing a new worldview. It is called allipsism, wherein everyone else is real except you.

None of you galaxy-brains dared to imagine that before.

It seeme like you've achieved a new level of awakening..a radical level of God realization that no human has ever achieved..and that none of those nonduality Buddhist rats have even dared to consider..you're sexy and you know it.

 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

That's maybe for those like you who never really had an awakening to solipsism but just do philosophy.

 Lol😂

You're just an evil NPC In my imagination trying to push my buttons.  

My love You're not even in the same ballpark as me. 

You think there is  a difference between having a blast off on 5 meo and listening to a video to derive a conclusion about the nature of reality .

I'm not awake . I was self-decieved . But if you pay attention I have outlined the problem with solipsism.  It's obvious as fuck when you think about it for 5 minutes.  It's undeniably true. But not practical .hence the contradictions and oscillating back and forth .

[Breakingthewall]

Solipsism is true from an absolute perspective and false from a relative perspective. 

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall thats correct. 

[OBEler]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 Lol😂

You're just an evil NPC In my imagination trying to push my buttons.  

My love You're not even in the same ballpark as me. 

You think there is  a difference between having a blast off on 5 meo and listening to a video to derive a conclusion about the nature of reality .

I'm not awake . I was self-decieved . But if you pay attention I have outlined the problem with solipsism.  It's obvious as fuck when you think about it for 5 minutes.  It's undeniably true. But not practical .hence the contradictions and oscillating back and forth .

No I talked about something other you said. Not that solipsism is not practical that may be true. I focused on this sentence:

"we act as if we believe in the objective reality of an external world..and no amount of "solipsising " will ever change that ."

You will not act according to the believe in the objective reality of an external world if you fully grasp solipsism.  Even though from another persons perspective it may seem so.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

we act as if we believe in the objective reality of an external world..and no amount of "solipsising " will ever change that ."

You will not act according to the believe in the objective reality of an external world if you fully grasp solipsism.  Even though from another persons perspective it may seem so.

OK thanks . Can you please clarify : if you "truly " grasp solipsism..how is your acting in the world gonna be Any different than if you didn't? 

What you (perhaps)  don't understand is that as long as there is even "a world " to interact with then solipsism hasn't been grasped yet.  Because solipsism means the end of the dream or becoming lucid in the dream analogously to your nightly dreams . So the only way you can fully awaken to solipsism is to die and the illusion of the world and other beings in it completely disappear. Like LITTERALY. So I conclude that it's impossible to act in the world as a solipsist. As long as you perceive a world then you must interact with it as an objectivist.