Religious people are stupid

[Spiritual Warfare]

For those who believe in God as the creator or God as a creator of us and it all, I will now demonstrate that it is impossible for the creator to be truly or literally separate from its creation.

Me:  Do you believe God created us?

You:  Yes.

Me:  If it is true that God created us, then there is nothing I can do or say that can change that truth.  Surely no lie or semantics can change the truth about what God has done.

You:  Yes; no matter what you say and no matter what circumstance or condition you suggest, it is always true that God has created us.

Me:  Therefore God cannot be separate from its creation because that would be the same as saying God is separate from the truth.  God is not separate from the truth about God because that would make no sense.  The only way God can be separate from the truth about God is if the truth is not about God.  So for ex- if the truth that God created us is not the truth about God, then God did not create us.

You:  No, no, no, God created us but not in his image; we're not the same as God; God exists beyond us, beyond the reality and reasoning of its creation.

Me:  Now it seems like you're the one suggesting special circumstances and conditions.  I don't care how you spin it; God is connected to us by the truth that God created us, and no matter how much God distances or attempts to separate itself from us, or no matter how complex and elaborate the technicality is for the nature of God, nothing can eliminate the truth that God created us.

Therefore, no matter how different and special you think God is from us, we will always be that which God has created, and we will always be connected to God through that truth.

Therefore, through the truth it is impossible for God to be truly or literally separate from its creation.

[Keryo Koffa]

If god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, then God is all of us by definition and there's nothing he's not.

Then again, People's idea of God is dualistic. We are not referring to the same God here, despite the Bible's pointers.

People's common conception of God is a personified being up in the clouds.

From a holistic perspective, such a god may exist also, but as a subset of our understanding of God.

[Ishanga]

 

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

If god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, then God is all of us by definition and there's nothing he's not.

Then again, People's idea of God is dualistic. We are not referring to the same God here, despite the Bible's pointers.

People's common conception of God is a personified being up in the clouds.

From a holistic perspective, such a god may exist also, but as a subset of our understanding of God.

Don't use this term God just because Leo does, its the wrong label to use since it invokes a certain idea and image, just saying:)

Intelligence is the basic quality of Existence, just think of the smallest thing like an Atom, do we know all there is to know about an Atom? I don't think we do, we may think we do but we don't, and within the Atom is mostly empty space, what is that exactly? 

So Existence is a sort of Grand Intelligence, what does this have to do with Us? We can be intouch with it more than any other life on this planet, by intouch I mean we can experience it in a way, know it in a way at a highly Aware and Experiential level.. 

Religion takes this all away from ppl, the opportunity to Experience Life this way, that is why its corrupt for the most part, the way it is done in our society today, as it everything large groups of Humans come in contact with and try to organize, this is simple because they are "Out of Touch" with Life and Existence!

[Keryo Koffa]

17 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Don't use this term God just because Leo does, its the wrong label to use since it invokes a certain idea and image, just saying:)

Intelligence is the basic quality of Existence, just think of the smallest thing like an Atom, do we know all there is to know about an Atom? I don't think we do, we may think we do but we don't, and within the Atom is mostly empty space, what is that exactly? 

So Existence is a sort of Grand Intelligence, what does this have to do with Us? We can be intouch with it more than any other life on this planet, by intouch I mean we can experience it in a way, know it in a way at a highly Aware and Experiential level.. 

Religion takes this all away from ppl, the opportunity to Experience Life this way, that is why its corrupt for the most part, the way it is done in our society today, as it everything large groups of Humans come in contact with and try to organize, this is simple because they are "Out of Touch" with Life and Existence!

I tend to use it within the frameworks set up and it did rub off on me. "God" seems like an all-inclusive term and is a common reference, but...

A self-organizing structure/psyche, a meta/transcendent Intelligence

I can see it as a better Pointer, but it misses out on the God Aesthetics

Actually, never mind

Shiva and Kali are way cooler!

Don't worry, I'm just joking. But I do love art!

Edited August 14 by Keryo Koffa

[ICURBlessings]

On 8/10/2024 at 6:28 AM, MarioGabrielJ said:

For those who believe in God as the creator or God as a creator of us and it all, I will now demonstrate that it is impossible for the creator to be truly or literally separate from its creation.

Me:  Do you believe God created us?

You:  Yes.

Me:  If it is true that God created us, then there is nothing I can do or say that can change that truth.  Surely no lie or semantics can change the truth about what God has done.

You:  Yes; no matter what you say and no matter what circumstance or condition you suggest, it is always true that God has created us.

Me:  Therefore God cannot be separate from its creation because that would be the same as saying God is separate from the truth.  God is not separate from the truth about God because that would make no sense.  The only way God can be separate from the truth about God is if the truth is not about God.  So for ex- if the truth that God created us is not the truth about God, then God did not create us.

You:  No, no, no, God created us but not in his image; we're not the same as God; God exists beyond us, beyond the reality and reasoning of its creation.

Me:  Now it seems like you're the one suggesting special circumstances and conditions.  I don't care how you spin it; God is connected to us by the truth that God created us, and no matter how much God distances or attempts to separate itself from us, or no matter how complex and elaborate the technicality is for the nature of God, nothing can eliminate the truth that God created us.

Therefore, no matter how different and special you think God is from us, we will always be that which God has created, and we will always be connected to God through that truth.

Therefore, through the truth it is impossible for God to be truly or literally separate from its creation.

MarioGabrielJ - the problem with this premise as it is formed IS the assumption that the meaning of God's Creation is or must include the Physical Universe - the World - or any Universe known to human.

What you refer as "us" I assume  you mean us-humans.

The premise as stated assume that WHAT you are is a body or somehow the physical body is You.

The Physical Universe - the World - or any Universe known to human - all that we can be certain about them is that they are a product of PERCEPTION - here perception is NOT defined as an end product of the body's senses and central nervous-system.

To assume all that which a human know via PERCEPTION which must include the Physical Universe - the World - or any Universe known to human is REALITY is absolutely invalid - this is not dogma but a fact that can be very obvious - but only if willing to see it.

You are correct to state that God cannot be separated from Truth, NOR from His Creation - BUT also His Creation must be the only possible REALITY -  this also is not a belief but a fact born out of fundamental reasoning.

Assuming WHAT Reality IS -  has been a continuous misjudgement of humanity. To think of yourself as a body looking out onto a world as seen as REALITY should first be QUESTIONED before making any premises about GOD's Creation.

[Nilsi]

Yeah, especially in mainstream Islam, it is considered heretical to discuss the immanent aspects of God.

I have many Muslim friends, and this is always a big point of contention in our discussions.

[ICURBlessings]

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Yeah, especially in mainstream Islam, it is considered heretical to discuss the immanent aspects of God.

I have many Muslim friends, and this is always a big point of contention in our discussions.

Interesting - I did not know that such a precept was part of the Muslim culture.

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, ICURBlessings said:

Interesting - I did not know that such a precept was part of the Muslim culture.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I could probably write a whole book on the scheming going on in mainstream Islam, just based on personal interactions.

Today, an acquaintance talked about how some drug dealer friends justify their criminal activities as part of their jihad, since they only sell to non-believers and thus righteously punish them in the name of Allah by reinforcing their addictions. So supposedly, it really is an act of the highest morality. Of course, deception and aggression are totally haram, but if your hoca, representing the Big Other in this case, says no, you just go to the next guy until you find someone who will tell you what you want to hear, giving you plausible deniability - "the guy said I can do it, so I'm good."

This postmodern Islam seems ubiquitous, with few "true believers." It's exactly what Žižek calls "interpassivity" (as opposed to interactivity) - an implicit agreement to maintain the facade of belief, even though everyone knows it's bullshit and that everyone else knows it too. But of course, this can never be made explicit, or else that whole social structure would collapse.

To be extra heretical: their "God" is as real as Santa Claus. You know that Christmas ritual where the parents know it's bullshit but pretend for the sake of the kids, and the kids know it's bullshit but pretend for the sake of the parents - and that's precisely how the tradition is kept alive.

All that being said, I still much prefer this over some fundamentalist who unironically believes all of it.

Edited August 14 by Nilsi