Ukraine advances 100-125km+ into Russia.

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

You have some twisted view of the world and poor understanding of the Tolkien universe if you think this way.

Nah, this good versus bad guys doesn't work in the real world. Accords have to be made between different powers, and respect mutual coexistance. One big power ruling the rest of the world doesn't work anymore, for the US, those times are gone.

[Bobby_2021]

@BlueOak 

The question is not whether those bombings and invasions were justified. 

The question is if NATO is a defensive alliance or not. 

The point is that the reasons you gave were not defensive in nature. 

I can give more cases, but that's not necessary.

Invasion of Iraq showed that US can prop up any bullshit reason to bomb and invade any country, so it's all pretty meaningless. Just because the name of NATO was not formally used doesn't mean people don't get what's going on. 

If you want to keep it strictly technical, then the NATO operation in Yugoslavia is enough. 

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@BlueOak 

The question is not whether those bombings and invasions were justified. 

The question is if NATO is a defensive alliance or not. 

The point is that the reasons you gave were not defensive in nature. 

I can give more cases, but that's not necessary.

Invasion of Iraq showed that US can prop up any bullshit reason to bomb and invade any country, so it's all pretty meaningless. Just because the name of NATO was not formally used doesn't mean people don't get what's going on. 

If you want to keep it strictly technical, then the NATO operation in Yugoslavia is enough. 

Point well made. Yes it was an offensive action. At the time preemptive action (preemptive strikes it was called) through the 90s was common as a defensive measure, especially by America in the post-Cold war period. This is in part due to the exaggerated fear of the Soviet era at the time cultivated in the west and the soviets themselves, later continued by Russia.

It was a different time, and a heightened state of tension, one in which we are returning to and might see again.

 

[BlueOak]

5 hours ago, Hatfort said:

The war wouldn't have happened if NATO wasn't arming the Azov battalions to the teeth.

 

The Azov were a few hundred strong and integrated into the regular army long before the war, the leader left to run for office and received 1.5%-2% of the vote. Russia created a lot more far-right individuals in Ukraine as a result of the war, as always in wartime, and as the war is largely about nationalism in Russia cultivated by Putin to maintain power, Russia has far more extreme-right individuals in their own country. It was never about a few hundred or even a thousand men or even the minor border skirmishes between the Russian-backed militias and Ukraine that both sides engaged in. Again, ukraine offered neutrality very early on and Russia rejected it. Because it would have been neutrality with western leanings due to the Crimea invasion, not a Russian puppet government.

I've mentioned the many reasons for the war before, we can go through them again if you like. It's easy to name twenty. All wars happen for multiple reasons, not just one.


Additional general info:
 

Looks like a few more border breaches going on to try and encircle in the north, and distract in the south, any remaining border guards

Edited August 10 by BlueOak

[AION]

I don’t get what Ukraine is trying to get out of this by being pawns of war profiteering Americans. 

Although I do support Ukraine. They should have had second thoughts before being so pro US in terms of foreign policy that caused the Russian aggression in the first place. 

Best thing is for Ukraine to understand Russia won’t back down. They need to settle down for something in the middle. US should stay out and write unconditional guarantees to stay out and Russia should retreat to their own borders. 

This whole quagmire should be a lesson for smaller countries. Don’t be a pawn. 

[Karmadhi]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

It bombed Serbia because Albania was being ethnically cleansed.

To elaborate, they were doing an ethnic cleansing in Kosovo which could have easily lead to genocide.

750.000 Kosovo refugees went to my country until the war was over.

10.000 civilians killed and over 20.000 women raped.

So Serbia bombing was not out of the blue, it was because of their horrible policies.

@Bobby_2021  I wish they also had intervened in Rwanda in 1994.

Sometimes military intervations are a good thing.

When a minority is oppressed by a powerful majority, sometimes interventions can be good.

If NATO decided to attack Israel to end the Gaza war (it will not happen, just hypothetically) , I would endorse that as well.

Issue with Iraq or Afghanistan is that that was not the case.

At least, as far as I know.

Edited August 11 by Karmadhi

[PurpleTree]

russia is going down baby

 

 

[MarkKol]

It's mesmerizing how Slavic people are so militant and aggressive, we're up there with the Muslims.

Imagine having to leave your country because some other nation destroyed it, and everything you knew is now gone. I'd be furious.

[Basman]

An amazing breakdown of the situation:

 

[Basman]

This could give Ukraine some much needed leverage. Russia will have to divert resources their wide border and they could trade land during negotiations. If anything, this represents a moral victory which have been important in other wars despite not being directly strategically important.

[BlueOak]

12 hours ago, Basman said:

This could give Ukraine some much needed leverage. Russia will have to divert resources their wide border and they could trade land during negotiations. If anything, this represents a moral victory which have been important in other wars despite not being directly strategically important.

Most of the land Russia takes is not strategically important, with a few important exceptions. This appears to be a similar land grab from Ukraine,and another is potentially starting in Belgorod now. Unless it's still a ruse of some kind which appears unlikely at this point. It appears that Russia has taught Ukraine and the west something about how to fight a war over very large mostly flat areas. 

Most people's egos will not allow them to see that truth however, on either side. Ukraine is using Russian strategy against them, by learning from it. By that I mean grab every field and every tree, because there is so much land, quantity over quality in this war in terms of terrain/resources/cover etc.

*Hearing reports they are at 500 square km's now.

Edited August 13 by BlueOak

[Something Funny]

13 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Most of the land Russia takes is not strategically important, with a few important exceptions. This appears to be a similar land grab from Ukraine,and another is potentially starting in Belgorod now. Unless it's still a ruse of some kind which appears unlikely at this point. It appears that Russia has taught Ukraine and the west something about how to fight a war over very large mostly flat areas. 

Most people's egos will not allow them to see that truth however, on either side. Ukraine is using Russian strategy against them, by learning from it. By that I mean grab every field and every tree, because there is so much land, quantity over quality in this war in terms of terrain/resources/cover etc.

*Hearing reports they are at 500 square km's now.

The question is: can they hold long enough so that it becomes relevant.

In his latest speech, putin doubled down saying that there can be no negotiations with Ukraine because they invaded Russia

[Hatfort]

10 hours ago, Something Funny said:

The question is: can they hold long enough so that it becomes relevant.

In his latest speech, putin doubled down saying that there can be no negotiations with Ukraine because they invaded Russia

Good question. The answer is no.

Yeah, Putin is pissed now. He gave an offer recently, and I understand Ukraine had the right to reject it, but what's to negotiate now? Russia seems capable of stopping those attacks on the border and continuing the expansion in Ukraine.

[zazen]

Might be a move out of desperation. What makes Ukraine think they can successfully take the fight to Russia by invading Russia itself with the same lack of military personnel, resources and hardware / munitions that have failed them in their own country where they have the home advantage.

Might also be a distraction from the recent news of Ukraine being behind the Nord stream sabotage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/15/ukrainian-team-blew-up-nord-stream-pipeline-claims-report

Not going to poke the holes in the story, but if Ukraine have acted independently of Western/US approval - it only makes it all the more embarrassing that so much money is getting funnelled from the West to Ukraine, only to have them commit a act of economic terrorism affecting their very own donors and supporters and escalate tensions with Russia. Same goes for this Kursk incursion which many are saying has only been able to occur thanks to advanced NATO equipment / Western intelligence.

Kursk of all places, where one of the most pivotal battles of World War 2 took place. A quote from Heinz Guderian who was a prominent German general - ''It's impossible to move forward, and when we move backward, the road is filled with the corpses of our comrades. When you start an offensive, you don't just stop because it's getting difficult, but once you've gone in, you never get out again.''

Edited August 16 by zazen

[Bobby_2021]

15 minutes ago, zazen said:

Might also be a distraction from the recent news of Ukraine being behind the Nord stream sabotage.

Don't think so. Ukraine is taking order from US for everything and anything.

US blew up the pipeline and blamed it on Ukraine. Most plausible explanation. At least they stopped blaming Russia lol.

Look who benefits from it. That's all you need to know.

What Europeans and Ukrainians don't realize is that US don't care about them. 

[BlueOak]

Its not hard to see the choice.

They can fight on their own land and destroy their own cities, and if they go forward they hit heavily defended Russian lines. If they go back they are further in their own country.
 

or

They can fight on Russian land and destroy Russian cities, and if they go forward they hit conscripts with no defenses. If they go back they are still inside Russia

Russia doesn't respond quickly or effectively to changes on the battlefield. It is however very sturdy and predictable once it has adapted, but that could take 6 months. They are also using a more western doctrine of mobility rather than trying to match the Russians shell for shell which is a far superior choice. Further it is much harder for the average Russian to bury their head in the sand as to what their own country is doing when their neighbors are now homeless.

All in all, I was calling for this years ago now. Use Russia's insanely large landmass against them with mobility. They can keep the Russians guessing until they have to slow down, but now that the gloves are off they can go in any direction.

Edited August 16 by BlueOak

[zazen]

@BlueOak Good summary. Their size is definitely their achilles heel, its one thing to have a large land mass with a large population to defend it - its another to have a large land mass and extensive border with a small and dwindling population that will struggle to defend it.

Definitely a embarrassment for Putin and Russia, something Western media are revelling in though the glory may only be lived in the short term.

18 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Don't think so. Ukraine is taking order from US for everything and anything.

US blew up the pipeline and blamed it on Ukraine. Most plausible explanation. At least they stopped blaming Russia lol.

Look who benefits from it. That's all you need to know.

What Europeans and Ukrainians don't realize is that US don't care about them. 

The economic incentives are heavily in favour of US industry. It seems they want to throw Zelensky under the bus now that they see no real way out of this mess. They want it to come to a end whilst saving face, hence Germany cutting aid in half just last month. US has its own domestic issues to deal with and wants to re-orient to China as the next boogeyman.

[Epikur]

Quote

Germany will stop new military aid to Ukraine in order to cut government spending, German media reported, just days after German prosecutors issued an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian man suspected of being part of a team that blew up the Nord Stream gas pipelines.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/08/14/germany-issues-first-arrest-warrant-over-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-reports

Edited August 19 by Epikur

[Bobby_2021]

Germany is humiliated. How does it feel to fund someone who does terrorist acts to crush your economy. 

[Epikur]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Germany is humiliated. How does it feel to fund someone who does terrorist acts to crush your economy. 

I guess it feels like a second Weimar.