How is the world still better than it has ever been before?

[OmniNaut]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, of course.

There are definitely some downsides and negatives. Progress is never 100% upside.

I see it more as a two step forward one step backward kind of thing. In the end we're still moving forward. But if you focus only on the backwards steps then you'll have the illusion of moving backwards. 

[Leo Gura]

It's more like 3 steps forward, 1 step back.

So not too bad.

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia Do you notice how it relates to this and that and our previous takeaways?  Should I keep count at this point?

On 8/1/2024 at 9:50 PM, Princess Arabia said:

I've noticed this a lot. Someone would ask for advice and rebut every response
Most people aren't looking to solve their issue but for other people to agree with them that it is indeed a problem
Then they rebuke the advice and the problem just dissolves when another arises out of thin air. A never-ending cycle

Edited August 8 by Keryo Koffa

[Princess Arabia]

4 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@Princess Arabia Do you notice how it relates to this and that and our previous takeaways?  Should I keep count at this point?

Keep count only if you have infinite time to. It'll never end.

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia If the machine elves taught me anything, then it's that reality has infinite space for everything! Might get boring tho

[ArcticGong]

Home ownership, geopolitical tension, the loneliness epidemic and uncertainties about the future. 

[Hardkill]

On 8/7/2024 at 6:51 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Look man, it's all a function of what you let your mind focus on.

If you wanna focus on the negative you can find endless shit to complain and cry about. But that way of seeing the world is a distortion and an illusion.

You are letting your mind use you.

Just a week ago you were doom and glooming us over Biden stepping down. Now Kamala is leading. Relax and trust the process a bit. Good stuff is always afoot.

I am encouraged about Harris's campaign and she is leading for now; however, we still don't know for sure if she's just going through a honeymoon phase that won't last for long. Also, let's not forget that Hillary Clinton was well ahead in the polls before she lost to Trump in 2016.

Edited August 10 by Hardkill

[DocWatts]

While it's very much true that the world is far better off today than it was in the past, it's a fact that's not of much use to people who are being harmed and exploited today.

Too often people like Stephen Pinker (some of whose work I do find valuable) use it to hand-wave and apologize for current serious systemic failures.

Imagine telling a black person living under Jim Crow in the 1950s :

"Sure you live in an apartheid regime that denies you basic rights and you're a second class citizen in your own country, but did you know that things are less bad for your people right now than at any point in history?

While that may be true from a comparative standpoint, you shouldn't be surprised when they kindly tell you to fuck off. 😆

Edited August 10 by DocWatts

[PurpleTree]

there is no world really 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

there is no world really 

How is that relevant to the discussion?

[zazen]

@DocWatts Agree with your post above.

We need to not be so optimistic we’re blind to current and future dangers, yet not be so pessimistic we’re paralysed into nihilism and non action.

The progress narrative often suggests the path is rocky but in the right direction. In reality, the steps we take forward can generate such severe externalities and unforeseen consequences that the single step back becomes catastrophic, not only undoing the progress we thought we made but sometimes dragging us to the abyss. Also, some of those steps forward may be forward in the wrong direction - we need to differentiate between change and progress and not conflate change with progress - change is cosmetic, superficial and quantitative whilst progress is deeper, substantive and qualitative.

Put another way, the three steps forward, one step back analogy assumes the steps forward and back are of equal weight. But the back step can be so profound and far reaching in its impact, that it completely negates, and even exceeds, any forward momentum.

We need to redefine progress to be more holistic as it’s often easier to quantify the material, and harder to quantify the immaterial aspects of life that are much more meaningful. Focusing on materialist metrics over meaningful ones and simplistically saying the world’s better is too simplistic. We should ask - at what expense have scientific and technological advancements occurred? And have these translated into social and spiritual well being, or are they destabilising.

Economic growth has occurred unequally and is now eroding buying power through inflation to the point of a whole “hustle culture” and gig economy needing to spawn. The pace of change and disruption requires people to reinvent themselves every few years or decades causing psychological distress and job insecurity that didn’t exist before. To illustrate, in the past people’s surnames often reflected their occupations ie Smith for blacksmiths, Baker for bakers, Miller for grain mill workers.

We can develop all the tools we want (through science and technology ie progress and advancement) but what good is the tool if the user of the tool isn’t well enough to use them. Another way to put it is this: we are developing lifestyles but don't have life quality. A parallel to this is that we have extended lifespans but not necessarily health spans.

Edited August 10 by zazen

[FourCrossedWands]

On 8. 8. 2024 at 2:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Crime rates are way down.

Pollution and smog is way down.

Technology is amazing and cheap.

All the world's knowledge is available to you basically for free via AI.

Cars are safer than ever.

Racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia are way down.

Psychedelics are much more acceptable and accessible and better-understood.

The 3rd world is doing MUCH better, like China, India, Africa, South America, even Russia.

And don't forget the most important one:

Actualized.org exists 

You forgot to add that there is now more porn than ever before. And it's free! 😂

[Nivsch]

I do believe in progress but what are the benchmarks for progress?

🏳️‍🌈🎸More freedom to the individual from close circles or far circles oppression?

🍏More physical health?

🎑More mental health?

Ok. Then the answer is quite complex.

Freedom to the average individual has improved dramatically during last centuries, decades and keep improving today.

Physical health diverges to two:

Life saving abilities - improved dramatically.

Health as a long term condition - deteriorated during last decades.

Mental health:

More freedom to express and be oneself helps mental health ➕️

Too much freedom and too little obligation to surroundings, along with too good conditions and too little self caring harm mental health ➖️

Moving away from nature and living in the big cities - mostly harm mental health to my opinion ➖️

Psychiatric drugs help short term but harm mentally long term many people + crazy dependency and withdrawal. Still help others but yet suppress for them deeper solutions and come with side effects. A net harm i think ➖️

Pharmacuetical drugs to physical conditions - help blurring the symptoms but preserve the problem and block independent thinking - net help to some but net harm to others 🟡

Social media - net harm ➖️

In sum, mental health has declined in the last decades.

To sum everything, don't know if last decades are a net progress but last centuries most certainly are.

Feel free to add more parameters, this is what come to my head right now.

Edited August 11 by Nivsch