Philosophical Counseling: Problems & Better Alternative

[r0ckyreed]

I saw Leo's blog post on Philosophical Counseling, and something about it doesn't seem quite right.

The title Philosophical Counselor seems to misrepresent the field of counseling. A master's or PHD in philosophy does not mean that you are now qualified to counsel clients through mental health struggles.

There is already Existential Therapist or Existential Counselor, which is a specific form of mental health counseling that helps people deal with existential issues such as death anxiety, meaninglessness, career concerns, etc.

My issue is that this field of philosophical "counseling" should really be called philosophical "coaching" or "consultant." 

I currently am an Existential Therapist, and it is a great life purpose. A typical PHD or Masters program in Philosophy is not going to prepare you for the mental health struggles of people as compared to a Masters or PHD in counseling.

There is a difference between a mental health counselor and life coach. Likewise, there is a difference between Philosophical coaching and Existential Therapist.

I would suggest pursuing Existential Therapist as a life purpose as opposed Philosophical Coaching because there are more opportunities and more of a demand for mental health counselors. As an Existential Therapist, you can practice a wide variety of therapy modalities such as EMDR, SFBT, CBT, etc. This is what I do.

Just food for thought.

Edited August 7 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

You missed the whole point.

Philosophical counseling is not therapy and it does not aim to address serious mental disorders.

You are getting hung up on an overly narrow definition of "counseling". Counseling does not have to mean therapy.

Edited August 7 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You missed the whole point.

Philosophical counseling is not therapy and it does not aim to address serious mental disorders.

You are getting hung up on an overly narrow definition of "counseling". Counseling does not have to mean therapy.

I guess where do you draw the line? If you are working with people as a philosophical “counselor” you are gonna run into people with trauma, depression, grief, anxiety, etc. that require someone with more training, which is where an existential therapist comes into play.

As a philosophical “counselor” you’re not gonna be able to help Hamlet with reconciling his thoughts on suicide because it would be unethical to practice outside of one’s training. My point is that this field seems nice on paper, but when put into practice, you are going to have a lot of people come to you that, unless you are damn good at philosophical “counseling”, they would do better with just seeing a good existential therapist.

But I could be wrong. I don’t know where you draw the lines between when to refer a client to therapy if you are a life coach.

[Leo Gura]

There are no lines in Mind.

You would just have a good screening questionaire and then use your best judgment.

[Davino]

@r0ckyreed I understood it as "a friend to contemplate" like maybe Claude or Leo do here when we contemplate altogether deep metaphysics and epistemology.

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are no lines in Mind.

You would just have a good screening questionaire and then use your best judgment.

i guess this is the hard problem of science in a nutshell.  
 

And the hard problem of life.

Edited August 7 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

39 minutes ago, Davino said:

@r0ckyreed I understood it as "a friend to contemplate" like maybe Claude or Leo do here when we contemplate altogether deep metaphysics and epistemology.

If that is the case, then this life purpose would be almost obsolete.

[Davino]

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

If that is the case, then this life purpose would be almost obsolete.

Why do you think so?

It should teach you how to think, it's rare. Nobody in society teaches proper high quality philosophical thinking which is free from dogmas and personal.

[Leo Gura]

The biggest problem with it would be finding clients and staying profitable. Very few people would appreciate or want to pay for this service.

Edited August 7 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

19 minutes ago, Davino said:

Why do you think so?

It should teach you how to think, it's rare. Nobody in society teaches proper high quality philosophical thinking which is free from dogmas and personal.

Would be nice, but as Leo stated, hardly anyone is interested in dogma-free thinking. And ChatGPT has replaced that job pretty much. It is kind of paradoxical to hire a philosophical consultant to teach you how to think because really this can be done on your own. Thinking is not something you can outsource because if you did, then you wouldn’t be engaging in independent high quality thought.

Edited August 7 by r0ckyreed

[Davino]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

And ChatGPT has replaced that job pretty much. 

I agree AI has become better in philosophy than most philosophers will ever dream.

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Thinking is not something you can outsource because if you did, then you wouldn’t be engaging in independent thought.

I disagree. Before doing cutting edge physics you need to have studied formal physics.

You are not the first human to ever think nor the only one in trying to understand thinking and philosophy. You gotta balance independent thinking with understanding the best minds on the planet and beyond. In this way, your thinking will transform and your Mind evolve.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

It is kind of paradoxical to hire a philosophical consultant to teach you how to think because really this can be done on your own.

This is something you could say of all coaching and counseling.

It's overly reductive. The practical reality is that most people benefit a lot from outside guidance, expertise, and perspective. It is too easy to get stuck in one's own mind.

Learning how to think well is insanely difficult and tricky, which is why even doctors and academics like Jordan Peterson are bad at it.

Edited August 8 by Leo Gura

[Quest]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Learning how to think well is insanely difficult and tricky, which is why even doctors and academics like Jordan Peterson are bad at it.

How did you learn?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Quest said:

How did you learn?

I've been praticing for 25 years and I am insanely intuitive.

Without my intuiton I would be totally deluded like everyone else.

Edited August 8 by Leo Gura

[Quest]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I've been praticing for 25 years and I am insanely intuitive.

Without my intuiton I would be totally deluded like everyone else.

I see. Sounds a little fatalist. If you don't have the requisite intuition, good luck thinking clearly.

Intuition aside, would you say this was achieved exclusively through contemplation? What other practices and resources would you recommend, if any?

Edited August 8 by Quest
Leo edited his post.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Quest said:

And this was achieved exclusively through contemplation? What other practices and resources would you recommend, if any?

No. It involved lots of reading and studying too. And psychecelics. And life experience.

[Quest]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It involved lots of reading and studying too.

What resources would you recommend? I've purchased your book list. Can I find them there?

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

It is kind of paradoxical to hire a philosophical consultant to teach you how to think because really this can be done on your own.

Why can't therapy be done on your own?

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, Quest said:

What resources would you recommend? I've purchased your book list. Can I find them there?

I post my best resources in the book list or my blog.

But really, Actualized.org is my answer to your question.

And I will have many new advanced videos that explain all the traps of thinking and how to think correctly.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Quest said:

Sounds a little fatalist. If you don't have the requisite intuition, good luck thinking clearly.

That's exactly right.

But it is also a function of one's values. The sad reality is that almost no one values truth or genuine unbiased understanding of reality, therefore they are incapable of good thinking. 

You can't become good at that which you do not value.

Edited August 8 by Leo Gura