UK riots

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, Butters said:

I'm not from the UK so pardon my ignorance. Very sad indeed. 

So first of all, do we know anything about this 17 year old kid who killed those children? The protestors believe he's an immigrant but the police said that he was born in the UK. So this is all false rumors? 

His parents are immigrants, it's an African. 

4 hours ago, Butters said:

Second, notice how irrational these protesters are. First you guys got Brexit which, if anything, messed things up more.

Yes peoples who are hardworking and have a normal endocrine balance, especially men, want to be sovereign.

4 hours ago, Butters said:

Then now the poverty is still somehow immigration's fault? Gimme a break. I'd be interested to hear from a Brit what you guys actually think is the cause of the growing poverty. Unfortunately Britain has gone from generally trusting to generally distrusting the government, just like the US, sad. 

You are either dumb or dishonest, riots have been triggered because an African men has killed 3 young girls.

Who has said "poverty is still somehow immigration's" ? Who ?

 

 

 

[Alex M]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Aren't most of the UK protestors poor?

It's difficult to say. Of course, you can watch the news and make sweeping statements, but they'd be assumptions. One thing I do know: if you've got some direction and are working on a solid life purpose, you are not in the streets rioting and looting.

[Alex M]

16 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You are either dumb or dishonest, riots have been triggered because an African men has killed 3 young girls.

This is a half-truth. It seems to have started because false news was spread that the killer was an illegal immigrant who came over on a boat. And he was born in Wales, not Africa, and yes, before you say it, I do realise he's of African descent. But the chances are this fact alone wouldn't have started riots.

[Basman]

3 hours ago, gambler said:

The try to bring this decisive garbage to Canada. Like rebel news was founded by Jewish-Canadian Ezra Levant who has a massive hate boner for Muslims. I’m just glad they haven’t been as successful here. 

I'm guessing that Canada has a relatively good standard of living for the average person. If people where much poorer then xenophobia would probably be more prevalent in Canada.

What a lot of you are missing when discussing racism is that a lot of it is driven by economic insecurity and an underfunded public education system.

[Consept]

37 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Who cares of your pathetic theoretical 5 bilions of benefit ?

So what ? You're ready to destroy your culture, become an ethnic minority in the land of your ancestors, increasing insecurity just to increase GDP ? Makes 0 sense.

 

 

Well the rioters care and reform care because thats a big part of what theyre complaining about, the money it costs for immigration, but obviously this is not much of a problem. So theyve been misinformed basically and their anger has been stoked up by lies. 

Societies constantly change, for your country to grow and expand you need people, it is what it is, its happened with every civilzation. If the UK didnt get people from abroad to come and work and didnt expand their colonies across the world (invaded is another word) then the wouldnt be anywhere near the wealth they are now. You can feel how you want about it, but thats facts. 

11 minutes ago, Alex M said:

This is a half-truth. It seems to have started because false news was spread that the killer was an illegal immigrant who came over on a boat. And he was born in Wales, not Africa, and yes, before you say it, I do realise he's of African descent. But the chances are this fact alone wouldn't have started riots.

A big part of this was also that they claimed he was muslim which led to mosques being attacked and this rhetoric about muslim grooming gangs (even though 89% of sexual abuse on kids i commited by white males)

 

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Basman said:

What a lot of you are missing when discussing racism is that a lot of it is driven by economic insecurity and an underfunded public education system.

This racist sentiment in the UK has been there for as long as i can remember amongst a certain demographic. There will always be some kind of economic stability, the question is who is getting blamed for it. If youve got people with platforms claiming its because of immigrants and brown people then of course thats gonna fire up some peoples hatred. In fact i would say racism was improving up until social media really started kicking off, now its given rise to people spreading misinformation about things like immigration. 

Education system isnt terrible, of course it could be improved. What is a big factor is the conservatives cutting funding for youth services by like 80%, it was actually ridiculous and i have worked in youth services previously. Since theyve done that there have been rises in gangs and young people getting into criminal behavior, because theres nothing for a lot of them, especially vulnerable ones. We used to have lots of youth clubs but tons got shut down. 

[Basman]

Give each of these rioters a million pounds cash and they'll mosey off home, I promise. Might even marry and have kids, help solve the birthing crisis.

[Butters]

2 minutes ago, Basman said:

Give each of these rioters a million pounds cash and they'll mosey off home, I promise. Might even marry and have kids, help solve the birthing crisis.

Could seriously increase benefits if wealth is properly distributed. You walk down one street in a random European city and you've passed a billion in property value, how come there's people on food stamps? Cmon now. 

[Basman]

7 minutes ago, Consept said:

This racist sentiment in the UK has been there for as long as i can remember amongst a certain demographic. There will always be some kind of economic stability, the question is who is getting blamed for it. If youve got people with platforms claiming its because of immigrants and brown people then of course thats gonna fire up some peoples hatred. In fact i would say racism was improving up until social media really started kicking off, now its given rise to people spreading misinformation about things like immigration. 

Education system isnt terrible, of course it could be improved. What is a big factor is the conservatives cutting funding for youth services by like 80%, it was actually ridiculous and i have worked in youth services previously. Since theyve done that there have been rises in gangs and young people getting into criminal behavior, because theres nothing for a lot of them, especially vulnerable ones. We used to have lots of youth clubs but tons got shut down. 

You need to take responsibility for the racists, bigots and idiots in your country. The complexities of how conservative politics sold out their economy the last 15 years in more or less beyond them.

There's too much blaming and not enough taking responsibility on the left. And the left has a higher standard for politics than the right.

[Butters]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

So what ? You're ready to destroy your culture, become an ethnic minority in the land of your ancestors, increasing insecurity just to increase GDP ? Makes 0 sense.

You did some verbal jujitsu there. Culture is always changing. The perfect 1950s living that populist idealize never existed and especially cannot be created now. Unrealistic, xenofobic. 

What matters is what we do now, today. And today we live in a fast changing globalist world. That's the reality. And to make the conscious choice to think small and nationalist in this reality is quite frankly dumb and regressive. 

Edited August 8 by Butters

[ArcticGong]

 

How many men of African descent are responsible? @Schizophonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–present)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_serial_killers

[Consept]

27 minutes ago, Basman said:

You need to take responsibility for the racists, bigots and idiots in your country. The complexities of how conservative politics sold out their economy the last 15 years in more or less beyond them.

There's too much blaming and not enough taking responsibility on the left. And the left has a higher standard for politics than the right.

What does taking responsibility look like? If the conservatives, amongst others, have sold them lies and promised them that theyre gonna do this and that and that theyll be better off and then when its worse than before they point the finger at legal or unprocessed immigrants, what are we supposed to do. We're all suffering from cost of living, our ire should be aimed at the government not each other. 

The issue is that you cant stoke up hatred that doesnt already lie dormant in people. You have to understand this country has had an issue with racism forever, but in recent times since when the caribbeans came in the 50s and 60s to settle when the UK needed workers. There were national front skinheads that terrorised black and asian people in the 70s and 80s, football hooliganism, all kinds of racial discrimination from the police. All of this has improved but in areas that are 95% white they still have that sentiment. Keep in mind there werent even that many immigrants back then and they were all specifically here to work. Even today white British people are 80% of the country. So this is nothing to do with these people being treated poorly or being let down they have this sentiment historically, whatevers going in economically. 

Now where i could agree is that Labour and the left need to press home their message stronger about why we are in this mess, but again its hard to with a lot of misinformation, but yeah the messaging could be better. 

[Stovo]

Poor people fighting each other over scraps whilst the wealthy live in an alternative reality 

[Basman]

11 minutes ago, Consept said:

What does taking responsibility look like? If the conservatives, amongst others, have sold them lies and promised them that theyre gonna do this and that and that theyll be better off and then when its worse than before they point the finger at legal or unprocessed immigrants, what are we supposed to do. We're all suffering from cost of living, our ire should be aimed at the government not each other. 

The issue is that you cant stoke up hatred that doesnt already lie dormant in people. You have to understand this country has had an issue with racism forever, but in recent times since when the caribbeans came in the 50s and 60s to settle when the UK needed workers. There were national front skinheads that terrorised black and asian people in the 70s and 80s, football hooliganism, all kinds of racial discrimination from the police. All of this has improved but in areas that are 95% white they still have that sentiment. Keep in mind there werent even that many immigrants back then and they were all specifically here to work. Even today white British people are 80% of the country. So this is nothing to do with these people being treated poorly or being let down they have this sentiment historically, whatevers going in economically. 

Now where i could agree is that Labour and the left need to press home their message stronger about why we are in this mess, but again its hard to with a lot of misinformation, but yeah the messaging could be better. 

Bottom line is that they are not going to do it themselves. The left needs to do more than simply press their message harder. they need to appeal to average folk by embracing nationalism and traditional British values. Stop demonizing and alienating people with polarizing identity politics. Identity politics is ruining the left.

But ultimately, the general populace is responsible for their political outcome whether or not they take that responsibility to heart. They'll have to learn the hard way if they want to vote stupid.

And when it comes to racism and xenophobia, well England has always been highly traditional and ethnocentric. That's not really going to change any time soon. But progress in terms of tolerance has been astounding since after WW2. Your upset that England is not England in a 100 years from now essentially. And keep in mind, even if you are minority, if you live in a modern 1st world country you have it pretty good in general.

[Consept]

10 minutes ago, Basman said:

Bottom line is that they are not going to do it themselves. The left needs to do more than simply press their message harder. they need to appeal to average folk by embracing nationalism and traditional British values. Stop demonizing and alienating people with polarizing identity politics. Identity politics is ruining the left.

Bro its not the left thats demonised them its the right that has amped them if with constant fear mongering, where do you think these ideas they have come from? What happened to personal responsibility that the conservatives are always talking about? Daily Mail, Talk TV GB News etc have been running fear mongering stories for years, the whole Brexit campaign was lies upon lies. 

Heres a good video that just came out - 

 

13 minutes ago, Basman said:

And when it comes to racism and xenophobia, well England has always been highly traditional and ethnocentric. That's not really going to change any time soon. But progress in terms of tolerance has been astounding since after WW2. Your upset that England is not England in a 100 years from now essentially. And keep in mind, even if you are minority, if you live in a modern 1st world country you have it pretty good in general.

No im not upset that England isnt England in a hundred years, progress takes time. Theyre upset that England isnt a fantasy England from 70 years ago. At the moment this far-right element has been highly motivated and still only 4 million of them voted for reform, which is something like 6% of the population, so however you want to spin they are the minority. Not only that young people vote overwhelmingly left in general. So its over for them, im happy with how England is and it has improved a lot youre right, im not complaining about it, they are. We're just calling out bullshit. (By we i mean most of UK) 

Their numbers for the riots are not even close to the counter-protests. This is not America where is nearly 50% maga, theyve already lost its just how do we go forward working together 

 

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Bro its not the left thats demonised them its the right that has amped them if with constant fear mongering, where do you think these ideas they have come from? What happened to personal responsibility that the conservatives are always talking about? Daily Mail, Talk TV GB News etc have been running fear mongering stories for years, the whole Brexit campaign was lies upon lies. 

Heres a good video that just came out - 

 

No im not upset that England isnt England in a hundred years, progress takes time. Theyre upset that England isnt a fantasy England from 70 years ago. At the moment this far-right element has been highly motivated and still only 4 million of them voted for reform, which is something like 6% of the population, so however you want to spin they are the minority. Not only that young people vote overwhelmingly left in general. So its over for them, im happy with how England is and it has improved a lot youre right, im not complaining about it, they are. We're just calling out bullshit. (By we i mean most of UK) 

Their numbers for the riots are not even close to the counter-protests. This is not America where is nearly 50% maga, theyve already lost its just how do we go forward working together 

 

Of course the right act like idiots. That is to be expected. Its more problematic when the left doesn't do a good job of reaching out to the disenfranchised. Its the left that will be able to provide solutions to systemic issues that plague a country.

Identity politics is a red herring in most cases. All this focus on racism is missing the point of a poorly run country. Nobody is rioting if they have money.

Edited August 8 by Basman

[Consept]

26 minutes ago, Basman said:

Of course the right act like idiots. That is to be expected. Its more problematic when the left doesn't do a good job of reaching out to the disenfranchised. Its the left that will be able to provide solutions to systemic issues that plague a country.

Identity politics is a red herring in most cases. All this focus on racism is missing the point of a poorly run country. Nobody is rioting if they have money.

To be fair the left haven't been in power, not even left, center left, haven't been in power for 14 years, so hopefully there will be changes for the better. The last time they were I'm power it was one of the most prosperous times for Britain as a whole, just shouldn't have got caught up in the Iraq and Afghanistan issues. I'm hopeful anyway. 

[Consept]

57 minutes ago, Jade123 said:

@Schizophonia Man you are getting cooked in this thread!😂 However in this thread I'd side more with you and less with others on the mass immigration issue, specifically the refugee crisis, and also issues with the 2 tier policing. We definitely need to resolve those 2 ASAP or it's not gonna be good for the country in the future. Like I'm fine with migrants who are engineers and scientists or other S.T.E.M expert or other coming here to live like a British person and contribute to society, but I'm not for engineers and scientists doing experiments on young girls and children non consensually that also take advantage of the liberal kindness, just saying!

Break down the 2 tier policing for me. 

In terms of migration you have to see British people on general don't want to do low level jobs, very few want to be cleaners or fast food workers or farm workers, why would they when they can get nearly the same not working? 

But someone needs to do these jobs and the ones that work thr hardest doing low level jobs are immigrants, there's no way around this. UK nearly came to a standstill after brexit when they couldn't get enough truck drivers, remember when Boris allowed EU citizens to come and work temporarily? Its definitely not just stem we need, the nhs is on its knees partly because they can't get new immigrants in to work and do 12 hour nursing shifts. If we didn't have immigration we'd be screwed. 

[Oppositionless]

On 8/7/2024 at 1:07 AM, Basman said:

The left needs to do a better job at connecting with the general populace. Right-wing propaganda works because its simpler for one. Its easier to blame brown people than complex economics. Its also easier for leftist to blame fascist than their poor influence on politics.

There's too much focus on fringe issues that don't matter to the majority and not enough on the economy and survival. The right likes to tote that they are economically reasonable but it is really the opposite. 15 years of conservative government has shown that. Labour has already won this recent election but the left should hammer this home from now on and into the future, and in general, not just in the UK.

The left needs to embrace nationalism/patriotism and adjust its language and become much better at dissuading fears. Be more approachable in general.

You're right 

even though I'm not familiar with what's going on the in the UK, I'll say that from the American side, Kamala needs to hammer on the point over and over again that she is a patriot, that she respects democracy , and that she aims to serve America . 
Liberals get way too obsessed with transgender people. Most Americans don't agree that a child should be able to get sex changing surgery. 
 

[Consept]

23 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

You're right 

even though I'm not familiar with what's going on the in the UK, I'll say that from the American side, Kamala needs to hammer on the point over and over again that she is a patriot, that she respects democracy , and that she aims to serve America . 
Liberals get way too obsessed with transgender people. Most Americans don't agree that a child should be able to get sex changing surgery. 

Labour has always been center left, more center if anything, the PM has already said Trans women shouldnt compete against women. But I think conservatives are more obsessed with the trans issue in America, of all things to focus on just seems crazy