UK riots

[Consept]

52 minutes ago, Alex M said:

Ahh, I see. So you are basing your 'data' on what you see on the news. I'm sure you realise that the news reports on a very small faction of all crimes. So your comment, "almost every time a crime is committed", is intact, total nonsense.

What you meant to say was that out of all the crimes you happen to see on the news, almost all seem to be committed by Africans. This is a different statement. It would help if you tidied up how you convey your message.

His points are not precise as he claims another accurate word to describe them is bullshit. 

If all the crimes hes seeing on the news are committed by Africans that would indicate a heavily biased media or hes only consuming content that reports Africans committing crimes, both would essentially be highly prejudiced. Also the type of stats would be very important, for example, if you just looked at number of arrests that could show you that a lot of immigrants are getting arrested but not necessarily committing crimes if these dont lead to convictions. 

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

That's not because someone is born in Wales that he is less an African with his genetic and collective (family, culture...) legacy.

The point is that far right people attacked mosques because they believed him to be a muslim, immigrant and he is none of these. 

 

 

[Consept]

1 hour ago, ArcticGong said:

Funny thing ,this, identity. A black person does something wrong in Britain like this Axel and his identity is attributed to be a driving factor for his action. He is a second generation immigrant. But I wonder if anyone thinks the same way about, for example, Donald Trump? His grandfather came from Germany making him a third generation German living in US. 

His mum was Scottish as well. But yeah its an interesting point, ive noticed in reports of when lets say, a white English person commits a crime its usually attributed to them being mentally ill or some other reason, which is probably true but their race is never a factor. When it comes to people with say African heritage this is always front and center. 

An interesting case study is the difference in treatment by the media around the Thomas Evans case and Shemima Begum. Evans was a 25 year old, white English male who converted to Islam and joined a terrorist Jihad group and ended up dying in Somalia in a war. The media reports are mainly around the family being let down by British services who didnt stop him, there was a documentary about getting him back from wherever he was. The sentiment was that he'd been brainwashed and radicalised and if his family could just get him back with the help of the British government, everything would be ok. 

Shemima Begum was similarly radicalised and moved with 2 other girls to the middle east to join Isis. She was I believe a muslim, born in the UK to Pakistani parents. She was 15 when she moved, a minor. When they joined Isis they arranged a marriage for them, and she ended up having i think 3 kids that all died. Her friends died as well. She eventually escaped Isis however shes had her citizenship revoked and is not allowed to come back into the country, despite all her family being here, they wont even hear her case. The general sentiment is that she deserves what she gets, she knew what she was doing and she probably still believes Isis stuff and doesnt care about the UK, it just didnt work out for her. 

The difference in treatment, i think is stark and if you are white for a generation or 2, no matter where your parents are from you will be seen as accepted by the UK anyway. Whereas even if you have 3 or 4 generations as some Asian and black people do have in the UK, you still will be treated differently.  

[ArcticGong]

8 minutes ago, Consept said:

His mum was Scottish as well. But yeah its an interesting point, ive noticed in reports of when lets say, a white English person commits a crime its usually attributed to them being mentally ill or some other reason, which is probably true but their race is never a factor. When it comes to people with say African heritage this is always front and center. 

An interesting case study is the difference in treatment by the media around the Thomas Evans case and Shemima Begum. Evans was a 25 year old, white English male who converted to Islam and joined a terrorist Jihad group and ended up dying in Somalia in a war. The media reports are mainly around the family being let down by British services who didnt stop him, there was a documentary about getting him back from wherever he was. The sentiment was that he'd been brainwashed and radicalised and if his family could just get him back with the help of the British government, everything would be ok. 

Shemima Begum was similarly radicalised and moved with 2 other girls to the middle east to join Isis. She was I believe a muslim, born in the UK to Pakistani parents. She was 15 when she moved, a minor. When they joined Isis they arranged a marriage for them, and she ended up having i think 3 kids that all died. Her friends died as well. She eventually escaped Isis however shes had her citizenship revoked and is not allowed to come back into the country, despite all her family being here, they wont even hear her case. The general sentiment is that she deserves what she gets, she knew what she was doing and she probably still believes Isis stuff and doesnt care about the UK, it just didnt work out for her. 

The difference in treatment, i think is stark and if you are white for a generation or 2, no matter where your parents are from you will be seen as accepted by the UK anyway. Whereas even if you have 3 or 4 generations as some Asian and black people do have in the UK, you still will be treated differently.  

Survival is the game we’re all playing. This identity business is  huge part of it. Very shamelessly bullshiti/bullshitesque/shitbully. Like a British person, Elon Musk, if he considers himself that way, complains and actively inflames a situation in a country that he isn’t not a resident in. Why, one could ask? Because of bullshit, simply. Entitled brats like to eat their cake and insisting on keeping it. Entitled to be British or make up an identity like Rhodesian, South African, Canadian or American. I’m considered a person black African in Europe, then naturally Trump or Elon should be called white European person living in America. But bullshit privilege absolve them from modifiers.  

[royce]

"Tommy Robinson" claims to be more English than others, but changed his Irish surname (Yaxley-Lennon) to sound more English. He went to prison for entering the US illegally on a fake passport, then complains about "illegals" He demonizes immigrants, but is himself an immigrant who lives in Spain He calls refugees "invaders", then takes photos with the Israeli occupation army He called for Brexit, then goes to live in the EU

https://x.com/richimedhurst/status/1820667586155102501

[ArcticGong]

15 minutes ago, royce said:

"Tommy Robinson" claims to be more English than others, but changed his Irish surname (Yaxley-Lennon) to sound more English. He went to prison for entering the US illegally on a fake passport, then complains about "illegals" He demonizes immigrants, but is himself an immigrant who lives in Spain He calls refugees "invaders", then takes photos with the Israeli occupation army He called for Brexit, then goes to live in the EU

https://x.com/richimedhurst/status/1820667586155102501

 Inception level bullshit.

[Schizophonia]

19 minutes ago, royce said:

"Tommy Robinson" claims to be more English than others, but changed his Irish surname (Yaxley-Lennon) to sound more English.

Quote

He demonizes immigrants, but is himself an immigrant who lives in Spain He calls refugees "invaders",

HE HE WHITE, EUROPEAN. 

Quote

He went to prison for entering the US illegally on a fake passport, then complains about "illegals"

Riots have been triggered because an African men has killed 3 littles girls, it's because of this kind of crimes that "far" right progress. You see there is a difference between that and doing a fake passport isn't it ?

Quote

then takes photos with the Israeli occupation army

It's logical he is against islam. 

Quote

He called for Brexit, then goes to live in the EU

https://x.com/richimedhurst/status/1820667586155102501

Yes he is for brexit because he doesn't want UK being submitted to an additional supra-national structure. But at the same time as a public figue he is persecuted and strongly death threat, so he had to fly yes.

There is no contradiction whatsoever.

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Alex M said:

Ahh, I see. So you are basing your 'data' on what you see on the news. I'm sure you realise that the news reports on a very small faction of all crimes.

Not at all.

By "crime" i mean murders, that's what it means in french so mea culpa if there is a misunderstanding.

2 hours ago, Alex M said:

So your comment, "almost every time a crime is committed", is intact, total nonsense.

No it's the truth.

1 hour ago, BlueOak said:

I didn't say you did, I did a breakdown of crime numbers and stats that agreed with your point to a certain degree, though I think you exaggerate if we are being blunt.

*I will state that data shows migrants to be suspected of committing more crimes, and likely because migrants are poor and poverty is the leading driving factor of crime. Skin color and ethnicity has nothing to do with it,

Where did i say the opposite ?

36 minutes ago, ArcticGong said:

Survival is the game we’re all playing. This identity business is  huge part of it. Very shamelessly bullshiti/bullshitesque/shitbully. Like a British person, Elon Musk, if he considers himself that way, complains and actively inflames a situation in a country that he isn’t not a resident in. Why, one could ask? Because of bullshit, simply. Entitled brats like to eat their cake and insisting on keeping it. Entitled to be British or make up an identity like Rhodesian, South African, Canadian or American. I’m considered a person black African in Europe, then naturally Trump or Elon should be called white European person living in America. But bullshit privilege absolve them from modifiers.  

Elon musk doesn't has the right to being worry about how evolve the society in other countries ?

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes he is for brexit because he doesn't want UK being submitted to an additional supra-national structure. But at the same time as a public figue he is persecuted and strongly death threat, so he had to fly yes.

There is no contradiction whatsoever.

You don't see the irony of trying to ban immigration to your country whilst at the same time immigrating to another country?

The only reason he can live in another European country is because of his immigrant Irish dna, you can't make this shit up 

And no not every murder in France is committed by Africans, what are you on about?

[Alex M]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

His points are not precise as he claims another accurate word to describe them is bullshit. 

If all the crimes hes seeing on the news are committed by Africans that would indicate a heavily biased media or hes only consuming content that reports Africans committing crimes, both would essentially be highly prejudiced. Also the type of stats would be very important, for example, if you just looked at number of arrests that could show you that a lot of immigrants are getting arrested but not necessarily committing crimes if these dont lead to convictions. 

The point is that far right people attacked mosques because they believed him to be a muslim, immigrant and he is none of these. 

Of course. Circling back to the original post, this kind of thinking creates the Tommy Robinsons of this world. I remember listening to Jamie Bartlett on the Rebel Wisdom podcast some years back. Jamie mentioned that he's spent some time with Tommy and said he just consumed himself with the same one-sided stories. In doing so, it creates his whole identity and, with it, his survival agenda. The self-deception, double standards and hypocrisy become almost laughable. 

9 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

By "crime" i mean murders, that's what it means in french so mea culpa if there is a misunderstanding.

Ok, so we're talking murders. There were roughly 1110 murders in France in 2023. Are you saying you saw the news item for all of these murders and concluded that almost all were committed by Africans? Because I'm calling you out on your bullshit.

[Alex M]

14 minutes ago, Consept said:

You don't see the irony of trying to ban immigration to your country whilst at the same time immigrating to another country?

The only reason he can live in another European country is because of his immigrant Irish dna, you can't make this shit up 

I'm sure in his mind it's alright, 'cause he's all white 

[Schizophonia]

13 minutes ago, Consept said:

You don't see the irony of trying to ban immigration to your country whilst at the same time immigrating to another country?

The only reason he can live in another European country is because of his immigrant Irish dna, you can't make this shit up 

The whole point is that irish are white and christian just like english peoples, not black and muslim.

13 minutes ago, Consept said:

And no not every murder in France is committed by Africans, what are you on about?

Not every murder obviously, but most and the most atrocious. 

 

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Alex M said:

Of course. Circling back to the original post, this kind of thinking creates the Tommy Robinsons of this world. I remember listening to Jamie Bartlett on the Rebel Wisdom podcast some years back. Jamie mentioned that he's spent some time with Tommy and said he just consumed himself with the same one-sided stories. In doing so, it creates his whole identity and, with it, his survival agenda. The self-deception, double standards and hypocrisy become almost laughable. 

Ok, so we're talking murders. There were roughly 1110 murders in France in 2023. Are you saying you saw the news item for all of these murders and concluded that almost all were committed by Africans? Because I'm calling you out on your bullshit.

Yes

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

The whole point is that irish are white and christian just like english peoples, not black and muslim.

Im not trying to be harsh on you because youre probably young and ill informed, but literally everything you claim is nonsense. 

Irish are white that is true but theyre Catholic, which is important because they were persecuted by the British for years, which led to them rising up and committing terrorist acts on Britain, similar to whats happening in Israel now. So if youre literally saying white people dont bring problems because theyre white, no persecuted people bring problems if theyre persecuted no matter where theyre from.

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Not every murder obviously, but most and the most atrocious. 

Wheres is your info from?

14 minutes ago, Alex M said:

Of course. Circling back to the original post, this kind of thinking creates the Tommy Robinsons of this world. I remember listening to Jamie Bartlett on the Rebel Wisdom podcast some years back. Jamie mentioned that he's spent some time with Tommy and said he just consumed himself with the same one-sided stories. In doing so, it creates his whole identity and, with it, his survival agenda. The self-deception, double standards and hypocrisy become almost laughable. 

Yeah that sounds accurate, you convince yourself of something and then find as many stories as possible to confirm it, confirmation bias 

 

12 minutes ago, Alex M said:

I'm sure in his mind it's alright, 'cause he's all white 

yep  

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Where did i say the opposite ?

A statement is sometimes just a statement, and not personal to you. I was qualifying a sensitive issue so my position on the data was clear. 
 

[Butters]

I'm not from the UK so pardon my ignorance. Very sad indeed. 

So first of all, do we know anything about this 17 year old kid who killed those children? The protestors believe he's an immigrant but the police said that he was born in the UK. So this is all false rumors? 

Second, notice how irrational these protesters are. First you guys got Brexit which, if anything, messed things up more. Then now the poverty is still somehow immigration's fault? Gimme a break. I'd be interested to hear from a Brit what you guys actually think is the cause of the growing poverty. Unfortunately Britain has gone from generally trusting to generally distrusting the government, just like the US, sad. 

Lastly let's play devil's advocate. You have to agree that London is sketch af and these youths are all non-whites stabbings and acid attacks and clearly there isn't enough being done to stop this horseshit. So seeing these radicals come to surface is no real surprise in these times. It's a tiny country with such massive differences. 

Edited August 8 by Butters

[gambler]

The try to bring this decisive garbage to Canada. Like rebel news was founded by Jewish-Canadian Ezra Levant who has a massive hate boner for Muslims. I’m just glad they haven’t been as successful here. 

Edited August 8 by gambler

[Alex M]

2 hours ago, Butters said:

So first of all, do we know anything about this 17 year old kid who killed those children? The protestors believe he's an immigrant but the police said that he was born in the UK. So this is all false rumors? 

The kid was called Axel Muganwa Rudakubana. He was born in Cardiff, Wales, to Rwandan parents. So, he wasn't an immigrant or someone who came over illegally on a boat. Those were just false rumors. Your second point is a bit more complicated to answer. I'll have a think about it and maybe reply back if I have anything to add. Also London isn't sketch af. 

 

 

 

 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Butters said:

I'm not from the UK so pardon my ignorance. Very sad indeed. 

So first of all, do we know anything about this 17 year old kid who killed those children? The protestors believe he's an immigrant but the police said that he was born in the UK. So this is all false rumors? 

@Alex M answered this succinctly but just to add - The rumors caught fire when Nigel Farage tweeted about them, when questioned on an LBC Radio show this week, he said he got the information from 'Andrew Tate and others'. Andrew Tate when questioned by Piers Morgan basically said he maybe got one thing wrong about the information. 

Some people say that a lot of white English people are annoyed about the muslim grooming gangs and this was the spark that lit them for these riots, but in reality 89% of child sexual abuse prosecutions are white people, which is actually an over representation of their population. They should be rioting against themselves. 

2 hours ago, Butters said:

Second, notice how irrational these protesters are. First you guys got Brexit which, if anything, messed things up more. Then now the poverty is still somehow immigration's fault? Gimme a break. I'd be interested to hear from a Brit what you guys actually think is the cause of the growing poverty. Unfortunately Britain has gone from generally trusting to generally distrusting the government, just like the US, sad. 

First off immigration is not really costing us what people think - "According to UCL, immigrants from outside the EU make a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion to the UK, which is about 3% more than they take out. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) also estimates that migrants contribute around £83 billion to the UK's economic output annually."

This isnt to say there should be open borders but obviously if immigration is done right it can actually be profitable. In terms of why poverty is increasing, it is a lot to do with bad decisions from the government, including the whole brexit nonsense, terrible policies such as the Rwanda immigration idea which cost nearly a billion and has been abandoned, all the covid shenanigans.

But realistically the big hit has been the energy crisis due to Russia invading Ukraine, meaning that are over reliance on Russia for energy cost us dearly. In real terms energy bills almost doubled or tripled, so if you were close to the poverty line this would push you over it. This also had a knock on affect in terms of cost of living, because services and goods became more expensive due to the rising costs on the businesses. If you add in stagnating wages, of course the people at the bottom would be worse off. It didnt help that shipping stuff from the EU is more expensive as well. There are other causes but the Russian energy is a big one. 

Id also add in the conservatives stupid trickle down economics, which is basically encouraging rich people to come to London by giving them tax breaks at our expense, with the hope that theyll bring jobs and development. They came but basically just parked money here without creating any jobs. Theyd even buy expensive property and keep it vacant just to sit on it as it increased in value. 

2 hours ago, Butters said:

Lastly let's play devil's advocate. You have to agree that London is sketch af and these youths are all non-whites stabbings and acid attacks and clearly there isn't enough being done to stop this horseshit. So seeing these radicals come to surface is no real surprise in these times. It's a tiny country with such massive differences. 

London isnt sketch af, stats wise knife crime has gone up over the last 15 years or so, but murders are down, anti-social behavior i down, gun crime is down. Its not what you see in social media at all, its just these things get reported the most. For example places like Glasgow and Leicestershire have very high levels of crime but you probably never really hear about it. 

 

[Butters]

55 minutes ago, Consept said:

First off immigration is not really costing us what people think - "According to UCL, immigrants from outside the EU make a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion to the UK, which is about 3% more than they take out. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) also estimates that migrants contribute around £83 billion to the UK's economic output annually."

Yes, and this is the truth that no conservative nationalist wants to hear. Whether it's populists in Europe or Trump fever, people basically try to deny the changing landscape of the global economy and how labor and migration actually works. 

I think Trump even promised to subsidize colemines or steel or something like that. 

Populism lives off sentiment and is not grounded in the economic reality of a changing world. 

So how do you change the sentiment? I guess having some money helps. Aren't most of the UK protestors poor? I guess stage Orange greed is preventing better wealth distribution, but it's probably more complex than that. 

It's not an easy task for Europe to simultaneously invest in military to keep off Russia while progressing society. Ironically the populists want to divide Europe, which would increase Russian power. Populism is such an epic facepalm it hurts my brain 🤦

Edited August 8 by Butters

[Schizophonia]

57 minutes ago, Butters said:

Yes, and this is the truth that no conservative nationalist wants to hear. Whether it's populists in Europe or Trump fever, people basically try to deny the changing landscape of the global economy and how labor and migration actually works. 

Who cares of your pathetic theoretical 5 bilions of benefit ?

So what ? You're ready to destroy your culture, become an ethnic minority in the land of your ancestors, increasing insecurity just to increase GDP ? Makes 0 sense.

 

 

Edited August 8 by Schizophonia