4-ACO-DMT BAD TRIP

[shree]

Guys any tips?!

I am in it right now.

[shree]

It's all fun and games until you have a totally unexpected breakthrough on this chem.

Peek-a-boo 

It's you again.

 

....

Edited August 5 by shree

[Leo Gura]

I've been fucked by it before.

Just try to relax and not think too much. Comfort yourself. There's no use fighting it.

It will be over soon.

Edited August 5 by Leo Gura

[Jowblob]

Write what you see and experience here

[OBEler]

I gave Shee the advice to switching to observer mode.He told this got infinitely worse.

I gave my girlfriend advice to concentrate on breath. Didn't help at all. And got even worse.

Why don't help common psychological cope mechanisms help in a bad trip?

 

Edited August 5 by OBEler

[What Am I]

A bad trip can be a like a feedback loop that grows from its own momentum. Pretty difficult to stop once it's begun. Something significant needs to step in and break the cycle.

As far as other chemicals, a benzo or anti-psychotic should tamp it down.

[ZenSwift]

In my experience, going for an ego death CAN help significantly. That is, if you can remember to. 

 

Contemplate: What is death? What is ego? What is self? To get an ego death. 

 

Trying to focus your love on the trip is good too. 

 

Other than that, surrendering to it is all you can do.

[shree]

Some important notes:

 

1. I know I said this before, but I've developed zero tolerance to this chem.

2. 4-ACO-DMT + Niacin will potentially mind-rape you. It felt like an existential gang-bang.

3. A bad or very deep trip can happen for no apparent reason, even on a casual small dose. WTF?!

4. My already-high sensitivity to psychedelics has grown even higher.

5. There's a razor-thin line between God realization and a very bad trip/severe panic attack.

 

*****

 

If someone told me I could contemplate deeply for two hours while dancing, I'd call him crazy.

@Leo Gura 

I got a glimpse of absolute madness at the peak. Boy, that was intense...

a. For fuck's sake... How many times have you exposed yourself to this to claim you understand the insanity?

b. I took your advice seriously about not expressing emotional baggage by screaming/acting on it (Martin Ball style) but by observing it. (If I understood correctly)

I attempted to observe and let go of the need to express, but observing my emotions led me to insanity that nearly took over. Luckily, my dose was small enough to keep somewhat under control.

 

This isn't the first time this has happened.

 

Sorry , I know it's not a practical question., but some kind of guidance would be tremendously helpful.

Edited August 5 by shree

[shree]

7 hours ago, Jowblob said:

Write what you see and experience here

Anxiety, insanity.

Not much to say.

I did not plan anything close to a big trip.

That was my biggest problem. I did not prepare for it at all.

[shree]

4 hours ago, OBEler said:

I gave Shee the advice to switching to observer mode.He told this got infinitely worse.

I gave my girlfriend advice to concentrate on breath. Didn't help at all. And got even worse.

Why don't help common psychological cope mechanisms help in a bad trip?

 

I didn't want a breakthrough, so distraction or surrender was needed, depending on how much control I had.

 

Since I wasn't prepared for a breakthrough and had my trip in the middle of the day with people around, distraction was my first choice.

But when I realized I was losing control, I laid blankets on the floor, locked the doors, and hid the keys from myself.

[shree]

3 hours ago, What Am I said:

A bad trip can be a like a feedback loop that grows from its own momentum. Pretty difficult to stop once it's begun. Something significant needs to step in and break the cycle.

What are you referring to?

Just now, shree said:

 

 

3 hours ago, What Am I said:

As far as other chemicals, a benzo or anti-psychotic should tamp it down.

Yes, that crossed my mind.

I guess those meds also do some damage to the brain when taken during the trip?

[shree]

3 hours ago, ZenSwift said:

In my experience, going for an ego death CAN help significantly. That is, if you can remember to. 

 

Contemplate: What is death? What is ego? What is self? To get an ego death. 

 

Trying to focus your love on the trip is good too. 

 

Other than that, surrendering to it is all you can do.

My problem is not to reach ego-death/breakthrough.

 

My problem is when it happenes unexpectedly, when I am not prepared for it at all.

 

But yes. Ego death is okay and a good choice in some cases. Being stuck in that place between ego-death and dream is scary.

[Oppositionless]

5 hours ago, What Am I said:

As far as other chemicals, a benzo or anti-psychotic should tamp it down.

Second this. Trazadone or seroquel have saved me from a bad trip in the past 

if I do lsd it's a must , just for the sake of getting sleep

[What Am I]

12 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

Second this. Trazadone or seroquel have saved me from a bad trip in the past 

if I do lsd it's a must , just for the sake of getting sleep

100%. I'm in strong disagreement with the notion that riding out a bad trip is preferable. I've heard it supported with sayings similar to "If you bought the ticket, you should take the ride." But if I was in a ride that was on fire, I'd get the hell out. It's hard to know what type of transcendent forces may be affecting you, and how that may manifest later on.

I'll add that I really don't like benzos and anti-psychotics, but it's a calculated use in this case, and better than the alternative.

[OBEler]

30 minutes ago, What Am I said:

100%. I'm in strong disagreement with the notion that riding out a bad trip is preferable. I've heard it supported with sayings similar to "If you bought the ticket, you should take the ride." But if I was in a ride that was on fire, I'd get the hell out. It's hard to know what type of transcendent forces may be affecting you, and how that may manifest later on.

I'll add that I really don't like benzos and anti-psychotics, but it's a calculated use in this case, and better than the alternative.

Interesting perspective.

I ask me what Leo tells about that as an experienced tripper and if he ever took trip killers. 

[What Am I]

23 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Interesting perspective.

I ask me what Leo tells about that as an experienced tripper and if he ever took trip killers. 

Also to clarify, I'm only talking about the 5HT2A-dominant psychedelics. I've never used a trip killer for a 5meo experience, and I don't think I ever would.

Edited August 5 by What Am I

[OBEler]

@What Am I ah ok thanks for clarifying.

Yes it would not be possible I think. And it wouldn't be a good decision because  switching from horror (come up/ego death) to bliss is common on 5 and it happens fast. If you would take in horror you would miss the bliss after (which heals the horror I think)

Edited August 5 by OBEler

[What Am I]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@What Am I ah ok thanks for clarifying.

Yes it would not be possible I think. And it wouldn't be a good decision because  switching from horror (come up/ego death) to bliss is common on 5 and it happens fast. If you would take in horror you would miss the bliss after (which heals the horror I think)

Very true, it's way more likely to flip from difficulty to bliss, and that should probably even be considered the expected path it'll take.

I find the 5HT2A psychedelics to be different in that the terrifying aspects are more persistent and don't lead to positive enlightening breakthroughs once a bad trip has begun. It could just be me though.

[ZenSwift]

Another thing I'd like to add is that when my trips have gone real sour, it will still end on a positive note. At least with mushrooms that has generally been the case.

 

And I think too, when you're doing any high dose of psychedelic, a rough trip is completely unavoidable. Just be sure you ramp up your doses slowly. 

 

I remember listening to a portion of the book "LSD and the mind of the universe" . And the author talks about not only is a challenging trip unavoidable when you're doing like 600mcg of LSD, but also what intrigued me the most is how he described how a scenario that was particularly challenging needed to "exhaust itself" in order to allow your consciousness to reach new levels or domains. How that suffering was very much a purification process. 

[bambi]

To me psychedelics simply illuminate your mind and subconcious. So a bad trip is simply aspects of your mind/subconcious that are scary, or more simply aspects of yourself you dont want to see.

High doses will illuminate this greatly, which can be traumatising. 

I dont personally end trips as I class them all as part of the healing/purification journey. Some of the darkest trips lead to the most corrective action. For example if you are behaving way out of line psychedelics will correct this at some point, or more accurately show you unequivocally the truth of what is happening, and the seriousness of it - so you can immediately correct it. It's hard to see how someone would continue to behave a certain way after a dark serious psychedelic trip

I think we like to believe the material atheistic paradigm that who we are, and how we behave is without any consequences at all, where pscyhedelics cut straight through this delusion in an intense way