Let's settle the 'nice guy' debate once and for all.

[gettoefl]

13 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

For some weird reason, everybody has equated 'nice' and 'pussy' and everyone collectively believes in this false equivalency. 

Where in the definition of 'nice' does it say that 'nice people don't face their fears'?! 

nice is you call the shots, real is my way or the highway

women ime dig the latter since by nature they already bring plenty of nice to the table so they want and need and respect the opposite

and a man indeed wants to call the shots since he will be the one who will be making the big decisions such as getting down on one knee

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, ivayloivanov0926 said:

I am only recognizing how much she means to me

Right here, is where I got it from. It's about you not her. She means something to you because she's filling a gap. Sorry, it's just how it is. Nothing wrong with it as we all do it in different ways, but it's still ego-based and stems from fear and attachment.

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

nice is you call the shots, real is my way or the highway

women ime dig the latter since by nature they already bring plenty of nice to the table so they want and need and respect the opposite

and a man indeed wants to call the shots since he will be the one who will be making the big decisions such as getting down on one knee

And this is why most women love to be with men of status, whose got their shit together and somewhat already successful because who wants to surrender to someone who doesn't know where they're going. 

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

And this is why most women love to be with men of status, whose got their shit together and somewhat already successful because who wants to surrender to someone who doesn't know where they're going. 

ikr so simple, isn't it?

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, gettoefl said:

ikr so simple, isn't it?

We love to complicate things while the ants just walk with bread on their heads. Lol

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Why are you thinking i will lack something

I don't say you will lack something, i've said you deprive yourself of something

Quote

 Just because I'm not into men for the sake of romantic lovey dovey shit,

 

doesn't mean I don't know if be men and would enjoy men in my life. It's just i know and understand men and they are not capable of monogamy and truly loving a woman.

Love is "dovey shit" or you can't have it because men dont want to give it ? You have to decide.

How could you prove i am "not capable of monogamy and truly loving a woman." ?

Quote

Even if they are monogamous it is forced and strained and has to be focused upon. Lots of discipline and self-control.

 

I don't consider that love so men aren't loving women either. Listen, it's all semantics and word games. If you truly knew me you would see how much I can display love but not because I want something from you but simply for existing.

You need me accepting your love under one of its forms.

Quote

That's my baseline. Survival and agendas is another story of which I'm well aware of and will not go into this love shit fooling my self into thinking its real love when it's  all just conditional. 

 

You are too anxious.

Why not take advantage of being a great Jamaican who cooks well rather than stagnating, refuse to be stingy, so you don't have to swallow this kind of narcissistic rage of your ego even though you are still relatively in a dominant position.
One day you will be in a wheelchair, with cancer or I don't know what, and you will regret having gotten yourself tangled up in such sulking.

Edited August 7 by Schizophonia

[Princess Arabia]

23 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I don't say you will lack something, i've said you deprive yourself of something

Love is "dovey shit" or you can't have it because men dont want to give it ? You have to decide.

How could you prove i am "not capable of monogamy and truly loving a woman." ?

You need me accepting your love under one of its forms.

You are too anxious.

Why not take advantage of being a great Jamaican who cooks well rather than stagnating, refuse to be stingy, so you don't have to swallow this kind of narcissistic rage of your ego even though you are still relatively in a dominant position.
One day you will be in a wheelchair, with cancer or I don't know what, and you will regret having gotten yourself tangled up in such sulking.

I can meet a man today and end up in a loving and wonderful relationship with him and still sticking to all I'm saying. I'm not sulking nor am I in a rage. All I'm saying is it's not about the love for me, it's about the quality of the relationship. I don't have to be in love or have fell in love to be in the most wonderful loving relationship ever. I'm not looking to be pampered nor catered to, nor am I looking for you to elevate my sense of worth or to be taking from you just to please me. That's all what I love you in most relationships mean. Sometimes I feel I better not express myself because I'm so extremely mis-understood a lot of times or I should try and express myself differently, idk. 

I'm not in rage, I'm not anxious, I love my cooking and sharing of recipes which is separate from all this, I don't feel deprived. What I'm saying is human love is overrated, the word has been misused and I don't base my feelings off of that, it's more genuine than that. It's based off of authenticity. Do i really like you. Do I really enjoy your company. Forget about how you make me feel for the moment as that's where the love part comes in, how do I really feel about you, the person you are and how I see the dynamics of our interaction together. Lovey dovey  shit doesn't come close to what I'm trying to express here.

Edited August 7 by Princess Arabia

[jimwell]

I was watching a Teal Swan video but then decided to visit this forum and saw this thread. I just finished watching the video. I feel the coincidence is interesting enough for me to post it here.

Girls love masculine beauty, of course.   

[CARDOZZO]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

By 'theoretical nonsense', I meant, saying 'women want a kind man' only to negate me saying that 'being nice is important to have a good relationship'. 

What you're saying is also theoretical nonsense. How on earth are we supposed to prove to women that we can 'kill everyone in the room'?! Should we actually do that?! Will women get wet then?! What are you even saying?! 

@mr_engineer

What is your goal with this thread?

What are you trying to deeply understand?

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, CARDOZZO said:

@mr_engineer

What is your goal with this thread?

What are you trying to deeply understand?

My honest opinion is that this whole talk of 'nice guys finish last' is internet nonsense. It was a tumblr trend that started in the early 2010s. Since then, everyone's been coming up with BS rationalizations as to why this is in fact the case. 

It is common sense that relationships work better when people aren't shouting and screaming at each other, i.e., they are behaving nicely with each other. 

[Schizophonia]

What does « nice guy » even mean lol.

[Keryo Koffa]

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

What does « nice guy » even mean lol.

» entitled tryhard ranting about his goody-two-shoes act not working« I guess

@Princess Arabia I feel you, I thought I was autistic or aroace, turns out I'm just an alien, like you, sis! And here's the crux of it:

https://elizabethbrake.com/amatonormativity/

Edited August 7 by Keryo Koffa

[CARDOZZO]

38 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

My honest opinion is that this whole talk of 'nice guys finish last' is internet nonsense. It was a tumblr trend that started in the early 2010s. Since then, everyone's been coming up with BS rationalizations as to why this is in fact the case. 

It is common sense that relationships work better when people aren't shouting and screaming at each other, i.e., they are behaving nicely with each other. 

I think the term 'nice guy' means that you are putting woman on a pedestal, you see yourself as less valuable than woman in a weak way. When you internalize this perspective, your behavior seem like you are worshiping a God and you are his slave.

Generally, nice guys had an authoritarian feminine figure (Mom, Sister, Teacher, Grandma) in their lives.

Edited August 7 by CARDOZZO

[CARDOZZO]

7 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

I think the term 'nice guy' means that you are putting woman on a pedestal, you see yourself as less valuable than woman in a weak way. When you internalize this perspective, your behavior seem like you are worshiping a God and you are his slave.

Generally, nice guys had an authoritarian feminine figure (Mom, Sister, Teacher, Grandma) in their lives.

From that POV, you are no longer a masculine man.

You are a weak pathetic slave.

Masculinity is all about leadership, inner strenght, confidence, kindness, savageness, being a rebel - a perfect balance between Apollo & Dionysus.

Nice guys are neither a man or a woman - they are nothing because they don't embrace either masculinity or femininity in the fullest potential.

 

Edited August 8 by CARDOZZO

[WillCameron]

I actually posted an article recently about the development of conformity using the nice guy as a down to earth example and the nazi as an extreme example. It's based on developmental models from Kegan, Dabrowski, and Cook-Greuter.

https://metamasculine.substack.com/p/the-conformist-cage-of-the-nice-guy

I'd be happy to have a conversation about it.

[BlessedLion]

16 hours ago, Alex4 said:

My theory is that men who struggle with being loyal and honest with women haven’t fully integrated stage blue values. When you have values like honesty and loyalty deeply ingrained in your spirit, the mere thought of being loyal to your partner for life gives you a profound sense of personal pride that's hard to describe. Additionally, knowing that you won’t have any more drama in your life in this regard adds to this sense of pride.

I still have fantasies about other women, but as you say, there’s a point of surrender. It’s where you tell yourself and fully accept that as long as you’re with this person, you won’t cheat on her.

Yeah I agree with you on this. I think most people just jumped into Orange and completely tossed out values like Honesty, Loyalty, etc. Which are so valuable and underrated. 

[BlessedLion]

10 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

By 'theoretical nonsense', I meant, saying 'women want a kind man' only to negate me saying that 'being nice is important to have a good relationship'. 

What you're saying is also theoretical nonsense. How on earth are we supposed to prove to women that we can 'kill everyone in the room'?! Should we actually do that?! Will women get wet then?! What are you even saying?! 

It's an energetic thing. It is not theoretical, it can be shown by your body language, tone and assertiveness.

Not that you are a bully or close minded dick. But you are confident in who you are and speak your truth/values. 

 

Everyone has seen the guy who is too agreeable and spineless, he is rarely with a woman on his arm. Your not actually going to kill anyone, obviously, violence is not the answer (unless absolutely neccesary). But if things got hectic, you could protect her. Does that make more sense?

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

And this is why most women love to be with men of status, whose got their shit together and somewhat already successful because who wants to surrender to someone who doesn't know where they're going. 

Exactly. 

 

As a woman, how important are the following for you in a man? (ranked) I am curious

-Leadership

-Confidence

-Humor

-Looks and Height

-Money

-Kindness

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

Exactly. 

 

As a woman, how important are the following for you in a man? (ranked) I am curious

-Leadership

-Confidence

-Humor

-Looks and Height

-Money

-Kindness

Depends on the kind of relationship.

Bf - Kindness (same as respect)/Money (as in generous)/Confidence/Humor/Leadership/Looks(don't care about height)

Serious relationship - Respect/Generosity/Leadership/Humor/Confidence/Looks

Marriage - Generosity and Respect are the same, and in that order if one exceeds the other/Leadership/Confidence/Humor/Looks

 

Kindness/respect and generosity/kindness are the same in my book. If he's generous but disrespectful it's a no no, don't care how much money he has; but that can work for work as long as he's not disgustingly disrespectful. Looks isn't important but he still cannot look like Nostradamus and smell like a skunk. Has to be clean and not smell and not overly, overly ugly. If everything else lines up perfectly and he's passed everything 90%+ then doen't matter if he's ugly. There are paper bags at the store.....just kidding. But he's gotta be so perfect in all the other ways and exceed generous by far and we have a great relationship.

I would date or marry a midget or a dwarf. Height has zero importance to me. You could be the shortest man in the world, don't care. 

I believe that's it. Might be a few slight changes here and there as I'm not rigid and set in stone but close to it. Why generosity is so high for me is because of what i do for a living; and to give that up for a serious relationship or marriage, he has to exceed that.

Why respect is so high is because I cannot feel sexual attraction for a man that doesn't respect me and i know in the bedroom he'll be very attentive to my needs and this is the only way I can be willingly receptive to a man and be sexual with no problem. I don't get wet or turned on by a man's looks. I can admire a man's looks and be like, "wow" or "nice" but that's as far as it goes, nothing sexual there. How he treats me is more important than how he looks. A handsome man is a handsome man to me and that's it.

            

Edited August 8 by Princess Arabia

[Butters]

This thread is on page 10, has it been settled yet? 

Stop worrying about what women want, who cares? Just focus on creating the life you want.