Is rape worse than death

[trenton]

I have been doing some research on crimes against humanity. I have discovered that sometimes rape is seen as a valid military tactic designed to terrorize and dehumanize the population. This tactic is especially effective and terrorizing against deeply religious communities who place a strong emphasis on being proper to the point that women may be killed when violated or they are forced to marry the rapist. Rape is also a form of biological warfare designed to impregnate the victim population, destroying their race and ethnicity or to infect with STDs. 

I have read about several examples of genocidal rape, trying to put myself in the victim's shoes to see how I would feel. I genuinely felt disturbed by what I imagined.

Here is one of many examples of genocidal rape.

Rape was widespread during the Armenian Genocide, which was committed by the Ottoman Turks. During the death marches of Armenian civilians through Anatolia in 1915, Turkish soldiers frequently raped and killed Armenian women and children. In many cases, Turkish and Kurdish civilians also participated in these crimes. Turks took Armenian women and girls into sexual slavery or forced them into marriage. Those women forced into marriage also had to convert to Islam. Some perpetrators believed that women and girls could be successfully assimilated into Muslim Turkish culture, unlike men and boys. After the genocide ended, women and girls who had been forced into marriage often could not return to their former lives. They had no family left, no source of income, or otherwise feared the stigma of having married a Turk. Additionally, Turks publicly raped the wives, daughters, and other female relatives of important Armenian men. In addition to dehumanizing the victims, these targeted rapes intimidated the Armenian leadership into submission and dissuaded them from resisting. Some Armenian women and girls were sold as sex slaves. The Turkish soldiers stripped them naked and displayed them at auction. Their nudity in a conservative society served to further dehumanize them and strip them of agency. Many were forced into marriage or prostitution.

In many cases women prefer to kill themselves to avoid being raped. There were cases with women being chased by soldiers through the streets only to jump off a bridge to kill themselves, avoiding rape. There were also mass suicides in Japan near the end of world war two because the women believed the enemy would rape them. Rape can also cause severe PTSD leading to suicide at a later date.

Rape can also cause a challenging moral dilemma if it leads to forced pregnancy. On one hand the victim is not responsible for the child, but on the other hand the child doesn't deserve to die. Some women throw these babies in a dumpster. Meanwhile there are some anti abortion women who were raped and are now single mothers.

There were some more severe cases of rape. For example, there was one woman who was nonstop gang raped for eight days believe it or not. She died shortly afterwards in one example of being raped to death. Other examples include things like the rape of nanjing in which babies were torn from the arms of their mothers by a bayonet, the mother's were raped, then the women were stabbed in the vagina with a bayonet until they died. Meanwhile boys were cut open and raped through an artificial vagina as well. I would rather die than have my penis cut off and be raped through an artificial vagina. I probably wouldn't survive such a brutal rape anyway.

One last example I found was from unit 731. This was a world war 2 death camp in which prisoners were infected with STDs and then held at gunpoint being forced to have sex with each other. This process continued with this repeated rape by coercion, infecting people with more and more STDs. The result is that each rape was more agonizing than the last. In the end the victims developed horrific infections in their genitals to the point that they all died and there were no survivors. I imagined how I would feel if I were one of the victims. I would rather refuse to have sex with this woman even if I am shot to death to avoid developing a horrific infection that may be lethal.

With all of that in mind, here are my questions.

Is rape worse than death? How would you feel about being raped as a man or as a woman? How severe does rape have to be for you to kill yourself?

Personally, if I were raped it would be severely disturbing and traumatizing. I would be damaged forever, but maybe I would survive. I think I could live with being raped once, but probably not multiple times with no hope of escape. I would definitely rather die than be a sex slave. For me I think it depends on how brutal the rape is, how many times, and what kind of STDs for me to fear it more than death.

[NoSelfSelf]

How would i feel about being raped ? Is this serious? Whats the point of this thread? 

[Princess Arabia]

Maybe one day I'll see a very high vibe post from you. Maybe purify the mind a bit. There are infinite Realities, why live in these states.

[trenton]

@NoSelfSelf there are a few points to this thread.

one I am trying to understand why some people would rather die. I realize that women live with this kind of intense fear of being sexually abused regularly. Part of me is trying to understand what it is like to be a woman and be afraid of men.

Secondly, I am trying to understand evil. I was having a hard time understanding why people would do things like unthinkable acts of terror and war crimes like genocidal rape. I am trying to extend my capacity for love to the indecent human beings. This is hard to do, especially when I imagine how I would feel as the victim.

thirdly I have been trying to improve my understanding of the suffering of others. I am trying to improve empathy.

Fourthly I am learning military logic and tactics to help understand why they rape so many people. They are being intentionally vile for perceived military gains.

Finally, I remember Leo mentioned that there would be a video about integrating the shadow of humanity. I have been trying to do this on my own. I have been reading about the most evil things humans have ever done and I am trying to learn how to love these people.

I tried discussing this subject with an ai, but claude was uncomfortable. It did not want to talk about things like military tactics and why people engage in mass systemic rape. Therefore I am asking the forum instead.

That all said, this is a sensitive subject. For example, vividly imagining some of these things can itself be disturbing. I have been vividly imagining these things. Maybe you think it was a mistake to bring up this subject because it is too much to even think about these things.

My apologies for offending you. It was not intentional.

[trenton]

@Princess Arabia sorry if I offended you somehow.

There are a few reasons for exploring this subject.

one is that I noticed I sometimes have the strange urge to laugh when exposed to something unimaginably horrific. This can come off as insensitive and make the victims very hurt. I am trying to stop this urge to laugh by deeply understanding how victims would feel.

Secondly, I learned that God's love is so all encompassing that includes unspeakable evil. God forgives devilry and evil. I am trying to be like God and love everybody no matter how unspeakably evil they are.

Do you think I am doing this wrong?

[trenton]

I promise I am not trying to be sick minded. I am describing the most evil things humanity has ever done. I believe genocidal rape is among the most horrific things humans can do.

Sometimes I try to find it in myself to love these people, but instead it only triggers hate and disgust. Maybe I am doing it wrong. Any suggestions for loving evil and all of humanity?

[NoSelfSelf]

@trenton Im not offended, its just there is so much topics to discuss to better your life than this.From your history it more hurts you than help in my opinion.

[Princess Arabia]

@trentonI see. I can try my best to explain how I go about these things without sounding too woo woo and impractical; but I might not do a good job because of how I've trained my mind to focus and the person i've become. I understand that there are horrible things going on in the world and we are trying to deal with it all and to show love to everyone around us and to be of service to others. These things are happening; and it's unfortunate that we can be susceptible to the horrors of society and have to develop our own coping skills to deal with it all.

However, we cannot change the world by trying to change the world. We have no control over what happens, only how we respond to what happens. All the teachings about loving everything, everyone and all the atrocious things that we see and hear about is fantasy. We as humans are not required by nature or the Universe to love these things. We don't have to love everything because everything is love. Love in this sense is not a verb. It stands on it's own. It's all love. Even hate. 

How we deal with all these things without feeling pressured into believing that we have to do something in order to be like God and love these things because that's what God does, is by observing them without judgement. Not accepting, not forcing yourself to love it, not feeling you are agreeing by not getting enraged or angry or feeling hateful; but by  recognizing that everything exists. Nothing is excluded. God or whatever name you choose, IS EVERYTHING. It is the genocide, the rapist, the victim and the perpetrator. (This is the woo woo part and I can't sugar coat it any more than I'm already trying, so bear with me). Not saying that whenever you see a rape victim, you should say, well it's God, so everything is fine or oh well, nothing I can do etcetc. No that's not what I'm pointing to. Take inspired action, whatever needs to happen at that moment will happen. Give assistance, protest, get angry, lash out, call 911, idk what will transpire but that's all you need to be concerned with. 

There's no need to ruminate on worldly affairs, no need to go in your head and think about how the world is cruel and how you feel the need to have to do something about it. Whatever that needs to be done, will be done even if it's by you. It will just happen. See it for what it is. A woman was raped. People are viscous....if that's a thought that popped up, let it, it will pop back down. If another thought of the same nature pops up after that, see it for what it is - a thought and allow for it to subside without judging it. 

This is a form of self love. By realizing that this is the nature of reality. The holographic Universe. This 3D density. It is not constant and forever changing. A flow of energy, karma and what is playing itself out. Even your hatred and disgust for these things is a part of the flow of life. Realize this, but don't dwell on this. Let it pass through you. Don't write posts about it because you are just reliving a bad memory. If it's not in your direct experience then it is not happening. If you find that you are in the midst of whatever you're in the midst of, whatever response is happening, is what's happening. That's it. No need to dwell in thoughts and mind about it. Just be present with what's happening and life will take care of the rest, even if it's through you, but you don't know that. 

The disgust you're feeling will pass but allow for it to pass without judging the fact that you feel disgusted. It's a feeling and feelings don't last forever. It's the thoughts about the feeling that will keep the thoughts in a continuous pattern and infect the mind. Don't beat upon yourself, don't ruminate about on past events. Level up your state of consciousness by inquiring into the nature of reality, understanding of why things are happening the way they are, how people are acting out of fear and a lack of understanding of who they actually are and empathize with it, and let it go. All of that is within the mental frame as the actions required will be done and wherever the energy flows from there will be as a result of how it is handled in the present. 

Long response, but it is the best I could do in trying to make you understand from my point of view.

Edited August 2 by Princess Arabia

[trenton]

@Princess Arabia thank you. That was a very helpful response.

I have met rape victims before and I responded just fine to the situation. They felt like they were alone and that nobody cared about their suffering. I saw how distraught she was and she needed someone to be their for her even if it was a complete stranger. She responded well to the interaction and was slightly relieved to understand that she was not alone. Other rape victims were homicidal and I wasn't sure what to say to them, but I can understand why they would feel that way.

Maybe I am taking empathy too far by trying to deeply understand how they would feel. My surface level understanding was good enough but trying to improve my empathy for them seems to be putting myself in distress. For example, I imagined I was a victim of genocide and all the horrors that come with it to try to understand the victim. I was disturbed to the point that I could not sleep at night. The reason I am often willing to go through this kind of suffering is because I believe I will come out as a better person on the other side such as somebody who is more compassionate and understanding. Sometimes I end up putting a lot of pressure on myself to somehow fix the world, therefore proving my existence was worthwhile and important.

I have a history of doing everything in my power to control anger and hatred. I often ended up turning this in on myself. My family was deeply dysfunctional and abusive, so I saw how terrifying unchecked anger could be. I showed some signs of suppressed anger seeing how it frequently led to negative consequences. All of this was in the service of being a better person than my family. I don't know if my attitude is misguided somehow, but expressing anger usually leads to negative outcomes when dealing with close minded people who are not receptive to criticism. Maybe I can accept that I would hate people if they did all of these horrible things to me, but these things are not happening right now as you mentioned.

Good post.

[trenton]

@NoSelfSelf what topics would you recommend I explore instead?

I have explored many topics and read many self help books, hired a life coach, did therapy, and took medication among other things only to remain stuck in the same life situation. Could you make any suggestions based on my history?

I promise I'm doing my best. I just feel trapped in life no matter what I do. What I have been trying to do in the case of this subject is to understand evil.

[NoSelfSelf]

@trenton If you are stuck then you lack game learn that.I dont mean game as in pick up, i mean learning basics of game so everything you are doing can actually work thats why you stuck.

Also radical honesty explore that.

[Schizophonia]

10 hours ago, trenton said:

I have been doing some research on crimes against humanity

What do you do that at the first place ?

[trenton]

@Schizophonia I have several reasons for doing this, but the main reason is that I am trying to understand evil. I am trying to understand what people are  thinking when they do the most horrific things imaginable. I had a hard time understanding why people become rapists and even take it to the level of mass genocidal rape. I am starting to get a better understanding of what militaries, dictatorships, and terrorists are thinking when they deliberately plan these horrific acts.

At first I had a hard time understanding why not just murder women instead of raping them and then killing them. Murder seems like a more efficient method of genocide, but there is a military logic behind why soldiers are ordered to engage in mass rape.

[Schizophonia]

18 minutes ago, trenton said:

@Schizophonia I have several reasons for doing this, but the main reason is that I am trying to understand evil. I am trying to understand what people are  thinking when they do the most horrific things imaginable. I had a hard time understanding why people become rapists and even take it to the level of mass genocidal rape. I am starting to get a better understanding of what militaries, dictatorships, and terrorists are thinking when they deliberately plan these horrific acts.

At first I had a hard time understanding why not just murder women instead of raping them and then killing them. Murder seems like a more efficient method of genocide, but there is a military logic behind why soldiers are ordered to engage in mass rape.

They are energetic games, it's love.

And obviously it seems you suffer from your persona so maybe you should play to an other game

Edited August 2 by Schizophonia

[Basman]

Generally, rape is not worse than death. You can't heal from being dead. And people respond differently to sexual trauma. Some break while others just kind of get over it more or less. There even exist rare freaks out there who are into getting raped. Degenerates on both sides of the aisle.

But there are different degrees of rape. Being raped to death is probably worse than just dying in a battle. When women kill themselves and their children in lieu of an impending loss they aren't afraid of being raped once by a single guy but getting raped repeatedly, enslaved and abused till they keel over dead. Have their tendons cut so they can't escape, etc.

There's value in severe exploitation like rape and slavery for the exploiter in ways that can't be exercised on members of the in-group because it wouldn't be possible to have a functioning society otherwise. Ethnic conflict is the height of self-justification to exploit and abuse people not part of your tribe.

Edited August 2 by Basman

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, trenton said:

Maybe I am taking empathy too far by trying to deeply understand how they would feel. My surface level understanding was good enough but trying to improve my empathy for them seems to be putting myself in distress.

I don't understand empathy in depth or the intellectualization aspect of it, but I'm a deeply empathetic person. It never came about by my trying to understand it or trying to improve it. It did it on it's own. After you learn certain things or get a better understanding as to why you behave in a certain way, it becomes easier to analyze yourself as to why you do what you do. In your case, however, you're trying to become empathetic, you're imposing that characteristic on the psyche when it's not there naturally. You're trying to solve a personal issue and thinking that if you're more empathetic it will help you to forgive your perpetrators or abusers, but that approach doesn't work because these things can't be forced. 

I kind of know your story as you've written about it on here many times. So I'm not just talking out my ass, I have a point of reference for what I'm saying and also what you're saying in your post and responses. I even remember once telling you that by asking people to talk about their trauma (I forgot the name of the thread you started) but you wanted people to go back in memory and list things that they went through - something of that nature and I said all you're doing is reliving the event because the brain doesn't know the difference between what's real and what's being imagined. 

Just about every post you make you address the fact that your parents were abusive and your childhood was so and so etcetc. You have not learnt how to let that go in a healthy manner and now you're trying to gain empathy by understanding why perpetrators commit these horrendous crimes in order to understand your perpetrators. I'm speculating here so correct me if I'm wrong. 

Empathy grows when you learn to forgive yourself. When you realize that your guilt and shame is not personal to you and that everyone is only looking for love and have not learnt how to process the empty feeling they feel on the inside due to various reasons. When you're able to process your own feelings of insecurity, and self-hurt and your own feelings of shame and guilt. Not trying to understand why others do what they do, that will come afterwards as a result of you understanding the self first. 

Edited August 2 by Princess Arabia

[Hojo]

probably depends on the severity.

[Keryo Koffa]

There are moments I was immediately reminded of when reading this post and section

Here's a timestamped segment from Non-Violent Communication. It talks about an important division, which is setting boundaries. There are our emotions and other's emotions and getting caught up in other feelings does not actually help the other persona and instead traps us in those sensations as if they happened to us. Empathy is a dangerous game and can affect us and be a detriment to both us and others if we navigate it in the wrong game. This also happens a lot in the world with scams, manipulation, and gaslighting. However, in this case, it is ourselves that we mistakenly start changing through the negative experiences of others, as beliefs shape reality, we trap ourselves in past experiences and perpetuate them.

Basman also wonderfully encapsulated the different perspectives and circumstances.

Spiral Dynamics reveals much about behavior and there are stages of power and honor, religion and ideology. And those are seen to transcend death, there is a greater fear of sin, than the actual passing away, and that manifests itself in seemingly crazy behaviors on multiple levels and in multiple ways: human sacrifice, torture, genocide, racism, rape, superiority, a focus on purity to the point of extreme stress and aversion, demonization of the other.

And yet there are many nuances and various reasons and motivations, sometimes the big picture is known beforehand and people avoid even worse outcomes, other times it is to set an example, in the military, it is to demoralize/conquer the enemy, sometimes it is pure sadism and indulgence in urges. Essentially, it has to do with seeing the "other" as not just a threat, but with disgust and wanting to eliminate it. It's quite the rabbit hole.

If you do seek to integrate it all and find a way of perceiving/understanding it from a higher perspective, Leo has videos on that:

 

[Keryo Koffa]

8 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

This 3D density. It is not constant and forever changing. A flow of energy, karma and what is playing itself out.

I'm astounded. I thought you were too non-dual to incorporate densities into the picture. I'm Proud!

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I'm astounded. I thought you were too non-dual to incorporate densities into the picture. I'm Proud!

I'm misunderstood a lot but that's ok. My approach is one of integrating it all, not leaving anything out. A lot of questions I see here would fall away if the non-dual and dual were integrated simultaneously. Some prefer to separate the two, I prefer to integrate the two which aren't separate to begin with and neither is true reality. I went through the phases, which ilm still going through and learning as I go to balance it all.