Why can't Gurus have sex with their followers?

[Butters]

Found this old thread where people say Mooji is a cult leader

Leo said:

Quote

 

Gurus sleeping with their students does become corrupt and problematic. Especially if they do so frivolously.

It's a classic guru trap.

 

But if I was a Guru, my whole cult would be around sex with my female followers. What's the problem with that? My followers get to have the time of their lives while we all enjoy physical contact, which may further enhance our spiritual bonding together. 

My whole commune would be my followers and I melting together and just getting higher and higher together in bliss. And then sure we may have physical urges that gets played out. Yes that might be slightly manipulative, but followers want to be following so I don't really see the problem. If anything it would enhance their experience, especially considering these communes are popular with women who are stuck in a rut, the sex adds to our sexual liberation. 

In this type of setting sex is the MOST enjoyed, so this is more consensual than regular boy meets girl at a bar. This is far more magical and sacred. 

I really don't see the problem. 

Anybody judging this from the outside is either jealous or doesn't trust my capabilities and integrity as a cult leader, and tries to use the SHAME from religion and society around sex to besmudge our beautiful bonding together. But please change my mind. 

Edited August 1 by Butters

[Breakingthewall]

Agree, As far as I know, Mooji doesn't preach chastity, and if living close those things happen, what? Another thing is that he is the leader of a sect with levels of power, where people are forced into submission, etc., but I don't think that is the case. If girls appear saying, that guy is toxic, I was in a state of submission, I come from a broken family and he took advantage, then yes, but if they are whole and free people, everything is perfect

 

[Leo Gura]

*Picard facepalm*

[Javfly33]

LOL

Quote

But if I was a Guru, my whole cult would be around sex with my female followers.

@Butters A Guru is someone that is completely 'done' within. 

If your whole cult would be around having sex then you do not care about your female followers liberation, but your own pleasure.

As you can see, notice how wrong you are in your thinking.

The whole point of a Guru is a being that has no business in the outside, within is absolutely done.

It is free from getting entangled in love-like transactions like sex.

That is why it's called LIBERATION. Because the bullshit ENDS.

Also is not only about you but about preventing your female followers of accumulating karma by this sex transactions. EVEN if they beg you you would say No. 

Edited August 1 by Javfly33

[vibv]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

I really don't see the problem. 

Anybody judging this from the outside is either jealous or doesn't trust my capabilities and integrity as a cult leader, and tries to use the SHAME from religion and society around sex to besmudge our beautiful bonding together. But please change my mind. 

Well, there you go. You convince yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine while you manipulate women to have sex with you.

You're victim to your addiction to sex (I think you could call it that if what you said you'd do was actually the case) while everybody else gets to be a victim of you — if they're vulnerable enough. You're not interested in those people, you're only interested in sex.

You can do sex as much as you want, no shame in that. But don't try to sell that as some kind of spiritual fantasy.

True spirituality goes beyond sex.

Edited August 1 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

36 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Guru is someone that is completely 'done' within. 

No one of those gurus, like mooji, adyashanti, Ralston, Spira, ram dass, Krishnamurti, Osho, etc.etc were done with the human thing. Maybe andamayi ma was a saint, the other were men with mystical opening in some extent . They had a big influence, very positive, but they were humans. 

Imagine that someone says that Ramakrishna used to have homosexual sex with some of his disciples. Would you say that's bad? Or ram Dass with his guru. Is that impossible? Why sex is dirty, or wrong? Sex could be, and should be very spiritual and true

Edited August 1 by Breakingthewall

[vibv]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No one of those gurus, like mooji, adyashanti, Ralston, Spira, ram dass, Krishnamurti, Osho, etc.etc were done with the human thing. Maybe andamayi ma was a saint, the other were men with mystical opening in some extent . They had a big influence, very positive, but they were humans. 

Fortunately, everybody that was here and ever will be is human. Thank God. So we have to think for ourselves, because nobody got all the answers.

Maybe there's something beyond.. but we don't know that yet.

Edited August 1 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, vibv said:

You convince yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine while you manipulate women to have sex with you.

42 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

The concept here is "manipulate". Implies that sex is a kind of predation where you get sex with the women manipulating them. I see it different, like, I'm giving them energy and life, pleasure and divine connection, same than they to me

Edited August 1 by Breakingthewall

[vibv]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

The concept here is "manipulate". Implies that sex is a kind of predation where you get the women cheating them. 

It's manipulation if you make them think they have some kind of spiritual advantage when they have sex with you.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

It's manipulation if you make them think they have some kind of spiritual advantage when they have sex with you.

If you do that, you are a cheater and a fake, and of course you are manipulating. But it's that the case? 

[Breakingthewall]

But agree, I was just doing devil advocate. 99% they are shit , and without his position nobody would want sex with them 😅

[Butters]

6 minutes ago, vibv said:

It's manipulation if you make them think they have some kind of spiritual advantage when they have sex with you.

Yes I agree that would be bad. My post assumes this is not the case. 

49 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If your whole cult would be around having sex then you do not care about your female followers liberation, but your own pleasure.

Why do these have to be mutually exclusive? As if we're going to be 'perfect' at this. No, people have desires let's not kid ourselves. 

[An young being]

A guru having consensual sex is not a problem.

A guru who advocates against pleasure and disciplines his followers by not allowing them to have sex, and then secretly doing it himself can be a problem.

A guru who takes advantage of his followers by telling them things like having sex with me will make you feel spiritual heaven or will speed up your liberation is a huge problem.

[Butters]

What I'm getting at is quite simple, but nobody has answered this yet. Let's say I give yoga classes to middle aged housewives and I fuck them all after class. Is this bad? If not, let's say we organize a fun evening or multiple nights where we do ecstatic dancing or similar activities. Let's say this builds up and I create a core group who are really into my spiritual charisma who I also have sex with. Is this bad? 

Next step we start living together in a sort of commune. Ok so where is the line? This boils down to: "the line is up to the leader's discretion", meaning I am not going to get any real answer to this. 

@An young being I agree

Edited August 1 by Butters

[aurum]

29 minutes ago, Butters said:

Yes I agree that would be bad. My post assumes this is not the case. 

Why do these have to be mutually exclusive? As if we're going to be 'perfect' at this. No, people have desires let's not kid ourselves. 

You’re thinking with the wrong head my friend.

[Lila9]

What is sex? What is sexuality?

A non-awakened, average fake guru sees sex as a means to satisfy their primitive urges. They fuck like animals. It’s not bad, it’s normal, but it doesn’t differentiate them from other average unconscious humans or animals.

They use sex as a validation or proof to their power, to their fragile sense of masculinity, they use it to prove and to showcase their status to other males. This is a social game that the usual men play. 

It doesn’t even necessarily spiritually connect people, but only makes them emotionally attached, addicted and obsessed.

An awakened guru sees sex differently: their perception of sex goes far beyond this.

Sex is a life force: it is the creative energy that is there. There are various aspects of sex and layers of sex as an energy. It can be done through words and stares, touching and even without touching. There is a whole art in making love. This can be a meditative process, tantric, sublime, mystical, artistic. 

Whole new ways to experience deeper and more satisfying forms of pleasure with deeper connection to the source.
 

And it’s not because the regular form of sex is bad, but for highly awakened individuals, it is too narrow, boring and shallow. There are so many ways to make love and to express their sexual energy that the usual and common animal form of sex is not that urgent anymore, or not that interesting and satisfying anymore.

 

Edited August 1 by Lila9

[gettoefl]

sex is a distraction often an addiction that prevents awakening, one is bliss within one is bliss without

the body is what you dissolve not indulge

even worse if you have others do the same

wake up first then see any appeal of sex

you shouldn't be anti-sex, just realize it is keeping you here longer than you need

so choose one person only and someone who has this same understanding

that appetite is fine but addiction is hindrance

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

sex is a distraction often an addiction that prevents awakening, one is bliss within one is bliss without

the body is what you dissolve not indulge

even worse if you have others do the same

wake up first then see any appeal of sex

you shouldn't be anti-sex, just realize it is keeping you here longer than you need

so choose one person only and someone who has this same understanding

that appetite is fine but addiction is hindrance

Sorry I strongly disagree. 

Sex is divine . Its divinity itself .hell..it's GOD itself .or a window to god . Osho said that the first person who discovered meditation discovered it through an orgasm when he realised that what happens during an orgasm is that the mind is silent . And that's really what we are looking for in sex .the zero mind state .

[Princess Arabia]

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Sorry I strongly disagree. 

Sex is divine . Its divinity itself .hell..it's GOD itself .or a window to god . Osho said that the first person who discovered meditation discovered it through an orgasm when he realised that what happens during an orgasm is that the mind is silent . And that's really what we are looking for in sex .the zero mind state .

What do you think is saying all this; nothing but the mind. The mind is telling itself, it's looking to shut itself up. Once I tried out something. I tried to see if I can think during an orgasm, you surely can. I remember thinking let me see if I can notice a thought and I noticed I was noticing. So, if you set an intention no amount of orgasm can shut the mind up. 

Edited August 1 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Sex is divine . Its divinity itself .hell..it's GOD itself

Isn't God everything, so by this definition, dog poop is divine.