Peter ralston thoughts on "toad juice" 5meo

[OBEler]

Yes we need to be open minded that we are full of shit.

The best way would be when Peter Ralston looks at our 5 Meo side because he just needs 30 minutes of time to understand our perspective. But we need 30 years to understand his. So he is the only one who can compare both sides. 

Or Leo and Ralston come together and talk that out.

Edited August 1 by OBEler

[What Am I]

8 hours ago, Yali said:

yea but to what degree is the question? @What Am I

All the way to a virtually supernatural degree imo. A person utilizing their own biology could meditate to the point of full ego death, where individuality is dissolved and they return to the ever-present source of energy and all things which exists before the potential of form is even manifested. The "flavor" of this realization permeates backwards into their manifest lives and creates an empowered non-dual perception in everyday reality.

I think even your standard gurus like the ones you listed can get to this point, and some very likely have. But if we look past the common gurus who are highly visible and public, I believe there's those who have gone even further into skills and abilities that'd be shocking, even to someone pretty well versed in spirituality.

[Davino]

I always deserve the right to be full of shit 

I expect never to forget my epistemic humility.

Edited August 1 by Davino

[Starlight321]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe he knows and we are full of shit.

Either way there's a good lesson there for you in self-deception

@Leo Guralol, either way I'm full of shit

[What Am I]

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

Yes it's brutal reality how someone like Peter Ralston who is known for being one of the most conscious man on earth still acts and thinks like an old stubborn close minded man with all his bias.

How on earth is this possible. Maybe nature shapes you more than anything. No one is save from self bias.

I'm not convinced that someone's level of logical intelligence and open-mindedness has a strong 1:1 relationship with their spiritual perception. I kind of view them as separate attributes, with spirituality perhaps being more similar to kinesthetic and intuitive skills, such as sports. An athlete wouldn't be expected to know a great deal more simply because of their accomplishments on the field.

Obviously though, it can be helpful to be able to keep all possibilities available in your mind, because human life is pretty bizarre as it is with what we've already realized exists. Who knows how much more bizarre it can get.

I should add on that at extreme levels of spiritual awareness, I believe the relationship between logic and spirituality does fuse, and then you do know practically everything in a crazy transcendent manner. This one's just a theory based on my own experiences and many years of researching and being aware of spirituality.

Edited August 1 by What Am I

[Jodistrict]

I take Bufo mostly in Mexico.   When I talk to facilitators in Mexico nobody has heard of non duality or enlightenment.  The main paradigm is healing.   But in America people assume that 5-meo has something to do with enlightenment.    The reality is that 5meo just is and gives a certain type of experience.  Could it be that it is just people interpreting the experiences in a particular way.  One person interprets it through the lens of healing and another through the lens of awakening. 

As for experience, I agree that Bufo has given me experiences that meditation doesn’t even approach.   But what is this proof of?  I also get a dramatic experience from watching a movie in a Cinemax theatre which meditation cannot reproduce.  Are dramatic experiences proof of anything?

My hunch is that Peter Ralston should be taken seriously because he knows his subject and is a systematic thinker.  He doesn’t have to take 5-meo.  He should be able to meet with people who have taken 5-meo and tell if they have achieved the mind shift that he is looking for.

As for my own experience with 5-meo, I choose not to put a label on it because it is so beyond labeling.  It’s a non conceptual experience and the mind immediately wants to stick it in someone else’s system of categories.  I prefer to live in the mystery.

[What Am I]

@Jodistrict I think that'd say more about the container the facilitators in Mexico are choosing to use to understand the experience than what it really is. And also, the idea that they've never heard of enlightenment; I guess maybe that'd be due a mystical tradition not being prevalent in Mexico? The perennial philosophy isn't just some toy for modern Westerners to play with and think about, it's a comprehension of the fact of spirituality that's passed like a line through all of history and found around the world. It includes within it the knowledge that humans can transform and pass recognizable signposts along the way.

There's not a doubt in my mind that the 5meo experience is closely related to typical and historical mystical revelation via sober means. I'd practically bet my life on it. The facilitators certainly aren't wrong about it being a force for powerful healing, but there's just more to the story as well.

48 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

As for my own experience with 5-meo, I choose not to put a label on it because it is so beyond labeling.  It’s a non conceptual experience and the mind immediately wants to stick it in someone else’s system of categories.  I prefer to live in the mystery.

Sure, fair enough, this is a great way to be, and it keeps you open and free to not become bound by restrictive concepts. I'm just making this post to express how strongly I feel that the endogenous neurochemical 5meo is 100% related to states of meditation as well as this thing we call enlightenment. Just my opinion though.

Edited August 1 by What Am I

[OBEler]

53 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

I take Bufo mostly in Mexico.   When I talk to facilitators in Mexico nobody has heard of non duality or enlightenment.  The main paradigm is healing.   But in America people assume that 5-meo has something to do with enlightenment.    The reality is that 5meo just is and gives a certain type of experience.  Could it be that it is just people interpreting the experiences in a particular way.  One person interprets it through the lens of healing and another through the lens of awakening. 

As for experience, I agree that Bufo has given me experiences that meditation doesn’t even approach.   But what is this proof of?  I also get a dramatic experience from watching a movie in a Cinemax theatre which meditation cannot reproduce.  Are dramatic experiences proof of anything?

My hunch is that Peter Ralston should be taken seriously because he knows his subject and is a systematic thinker.  He doesn’t have to take 5-meo.  He should be able to meet with people who have taken 5-meo and tell if they have achieved the mind shift that he is looking for.

As for my own experience with 5-meo, I choose not to put a label on it because it is so beyond labeling.  It’s a non conceptual experience and the mind immediately wants to stick it in someone else’s system of categories.  I prefer to live in the mystery.

Great answer. And I changed my opinion. At first I thought he is a stubborn old man who doesn't want to experience new things. But he should be taken seriously. And  he did high doses of LSD in hos youth 

Edited August 1 by OBEler

[Osaid]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

This kinda blew my mind . 🤯😵‍💫

It's very simple in hindsight, isn't it? 

It is actually a common trap in self-inquiry. The goal of self-inquiry is to examine direct experience. But mind says "I will be enlightened and more conscious in the future after I do this and that" which actually points to something which isn't directly experienced, AKA the future. The mind constantly churns beliefs about yourself which aren't actually experienced.

Mind overcomplicates everything, don't fall into it!

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I take Bufo mostly in Mexico.   When I talk to facilitators in Mexico nobody has heard of non duality or enlightenment.  The main paradigm is healing.   But in America people assume that 5-meo has something to do with enlightenment.    The reality is that 5meo just is and gives a certain type of experience.  Could it be that it is just people interpreting the experiences in a particular way.  One person interprets it through the lens of healing and another through the lens of awakening. 

As for experience, I agree that Bufo has given me experiences that meditation doesn’t even approach.   But what is this proof of?  I also get a dramatic experience from watching a movie in a Cinemax theatre which meditation cannot reproduce.  Are dramatic experiences proof of anything?

My hunch is that Peter Ralston should be taken seriously because he knows his subject and is a systematic thinker.  He doesn’t have to take 5-meo.  He should be able to meet with people who have taken 5-meo and tell if they have achieved the mind shift that he is looking for.

As for my own experience with 5-meo, I choose not to put a label on it because it is so beyond labeling.  It’s a non conceptual experience and the mind immediately wants to stick it in someone else’s system of categories.  I prefer to live in the mystery.

This. People have alienated me because I have never done any psychedelics. How can it show you unity when it divides. I understand it all comes together but that's a sign to me that it's not the end all be all. 

Edited August 1 by Princess Arabia

[Osaid]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

As for my own experience with 5-meo, I choose not to put a label on it because it is so beyond labeling.  It’s a non conceptual experience and the mind immediately wants to stick it in someone else’s system of categories.  I prefer to live in the mystery.

Wise!

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

 The mind constantly churns beliefs about yourself which aren't actually experienced.

Mind overcomplicates everything, don't fall into it!

But if i dont use a Mind i dont know what this experience is or where i am

Or what i am even 😂

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I take Bufo mostly in Mexico.   When I talk to facilitators in Mexico nobody has heard of non duality or enlightenment.  The main paradigm is healing.   But in America people assume that 5-meo has something to do with enlightenment.    The reality is that 5meo just is and gives a certain type of experience.  Could it be that it is just people interpreting the experiences in a particular way.  One person interprets it through the lens of healing and another through the lens of awakening. 

Give a monkey a phone and it will use to scratch its back.

Give it to a normie and it will use it to watch cat videos.

Give it to a wise man and it will access the whole Internet.

The phone is the same, it's what you do with it. Of course. How do you direct your trip? I am the captain 

Edited August 1 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Davino said:

Give a monkey a phone and it will use to scratch its back.

I just saw a video of a chimpanzee flipping through pics on a touchscreen like it was a teenager hooked on Instagram.

Edited August 1 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I just saw a video of a chimpanzee flipping through pics on a touchscreen like it was a teenager hooked on Instagram.

 

[Thought Art]

@Husseinisdoingfine Planet of The Apes origin story 

[Osaid]

30 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But if i dont use a Mind i dont know what this experience is or where i am

Or what i am even 😂

The tool you are using to define yourself is incorrect because it divides you into two. Mind can only divide.

When you realize exactly why it is useless to try and define yourself, that is enlightenment.

The core belief of duality is that the mind can define what you are, when in actuality there isn't a "you" separate from mind which can be defined.

In actuality, it is all one undivided perception. There isn't something separate from that perception which could be somewhere or lack knowledge about itself.

You will never find a version of yourself in the future which understands yourself better, because that itself is the misunderstanding. The future is a mental reflection of yourself, and so is the past, but there is no one in the present who experiences either.

There is absolutely no function or need for you to acquire more knowledge about yourself because the knowledge you have now is all you will ever have. You don't have to travel back in time in order to gather memories of yourself, because those memories appear now. You don't have to travel into the future to gain knowledge about yourself because you never experience the future by definition, only what you experience now. When it is completely realized that all knowledge about "yourself" is false because there is nothing present which is separate from that knowledge, that is enlightenment. 

There isn't anyone who acquires knowledge over time, or will acquire knowledge in the future, there is ONLY the knowledge you are perceiving now which contains all ideas about past and future.

Knowledge is its own self-contained perception. In the exact same way that you don't need something separate from hearing to hear, or something separate from seeing to see.

No one "has" knowledge. No one "has" seeing. No one "has" hearing. Everything is a self-contained perception which perfectly regulates itself.

You are ALWAYS experiencing exactly what you are no matter what you think or believe about yourself. How can something that is only itself ever lack itself?

It is self-knowledge which says "maybe I don't know what I am", but that "I" is never found in experience, it is an assumption. The error is that you can't know something which does not exist. Duality does not exist. 

[Davino]

I never forget I am Satan

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, Osaid said:

There isn't anyone who acquires knowledge over time, or will acquire knowledge in the future, there is ONLY the knowledge you are perceiving now which contains all ideas about past and future.

Knowledge is its own self-contained perception. In the exact same way that you don't need something separate from hearing to hear, or something separate from seeing to see.

No one "has" knowledge. No one "has" seeing. No one "has" hearing. Everything is a self-contained perception which perfectly regulates itself.

You are ALWAYS experiencing exactly what you are no matter what you think or believe about yourself. How can something that is only itself ever lack itself?

It is self-knowledge which says "maybe I don't know what I am", but that "I" is never found in experience, it is an assumption. The error is that you can't know something which does not exist. Duality does not exist. 

@Osaid

Quote

When you realize exactly why it is useless to try and define yourself, that is enlightenment.
 

The who or what that realises is useless would be the Real Self of I? 

Quote

The core belief of duality is that the mind can define what you are, when in actuality there isn't a "you" separate from mind which can be defined.
 

Right, so trying to 'seek' answers from the mind is not correct right?

Quote

In actuality, it is all one undivided perception. There isn't something separate from that perception which could be somewhere or lack knowledge about itself.

Right, but then why there is an apparent seeking in the body movements or mind?

Is it because the Real Self is unconscious? Although this is more mind labelling.

Quote

You will never find a version of yourself in the future which understands yourself better, because that itself is the misunderstanding. The future is a mental reflection of yourself, and so is the past, but there is no one in the present who experiences either.

I get that that kind of seeking happens because im veiling myself with thoughts and beliefs? Right now

Quote

When it is completely realized that all knowledge about "yourself" is false because there is nothing present which is separate from that knowledge, that is enlightenment. 

So 'Being' instead of knowing?

Quote

You are ALWAYS experiencing exactly what you are no matter what you think or believe about yourself. How can something that is only itself ever lack itself?

Make sense but something must be lacking if there seems to be a seeking. Why I go do yoga every afternoon , im trying to seek myself. But is the seeking itself that happens because im not aware what I am.

Of course this is more mind. But im trying to understand then why I keep meditating? I keep seeking something, maybe the end of seeking 😂 The end of 'myself' 

Edited August 2 by Javfly33

[Osaid]

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

The who or what that realises is useless would be the Real Self of I? 

There is one thing, which is you, or existence, or life, or reality, which is what you always will be.

There couldn't be something that is separate from life or reality, or it would not exist by definition. This means that all comparisons are ultimately false. All conceptions of higher or lower, up and down, etc.

Thus all separation is assumed, never actually experienced.

By inspecting the assumption, it can be dispelled.

The most common way for separation to happen is through the concepts of time, specifically past and future. The false self constantly tries to define itself through past and future, even though it is never actually experienced.

You cannot experience past, present, and future at the same time. It can only be one at a time. You can't experience the past from the past, and you can't experience the future from the future. You can only experience what is happening now.

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Right, so trying to 'seek' answers from the mind is not correct right?

It is not correct or incorrect. What matters is your goal and what you believe the mind is doing. The mind is a tool.

If you have a belief, you must traverse the mind by questioning the mind. This is self-inquiry.

In order to realize Santa doesn't exist, you must ask questions about Santa. Who experiences Santa? Where is he? etc.

You should explore every single concept in your mind until you are sure that there is nothing there for you to find.

It is not true that your thinking is unlimited. There is a limit to thinking. In fact, all thinking is made up of limitations. Thinking is the mind's ability to divide. By seeing that you can only think in limits, it opens the possibility to see what is beyond those limits.

If you clearly see why thoughts are unable to divide you, that is the moment of enlightenment.

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Right, but then why there is an apparent seeking in the body movements or mind?

Is it because the Real Self is unconscious? Although this is more mind labelling.

It is just your natural intelligence playing itself out. Your body listens in on everything you believe and think. Everything is connected without exception. That is why your heart starts racing when you think of something stressful. That is why you physically laugh when you think of something funny.

If you assume you are a unicorn, you will act like a unicorn.

If you assume you are a separate self, you will act like a separate self.

The body serves your beliefs. It's a conduit for your beliefs.

The "Real Self" is always here now, it never moves or goes anywhere else. The body moves but you don't, unless you assume that you are a body, which is not the Real Self.

Ramana Maharshi had a relevant quote:

"You are where you have always been. It is your body that moved till it reached this ashram."

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I get that that kind of seeking happens because im veiling myself with thoughts and beliefs? Right now

The seeking happens because you think there is something valuable in thoughts which can define you. If I tell you there is treasure in a cave, you will seek the cave. If I tell you there is treasure in thoughts, you will seek thoughts. Enlightenment is realizing that there is nothing valuable in thoughts because thoughts can never define you; the entire assumption which drives the search is false. When the assumption is realized to be false, that is enlightenment.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding with how knowledge works. You think that you can define yourself through knowledge gained over past and future, but this is false. Realizing why it is false is enlightenment. As long as you believe it is true, there will be an imperative to search for knowledge in thoughts.

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

So 'Being' instead of knowing?

There is no other option than to be. There are simply assumptions and beliefs which you have built which must be questioned and torn down.

Envision this for a moment. Throw away all knowledge about what you are, about humans, about reality. See how freeing and limitless it feels. That is what you are trying to realize. It is an absence of beliefs and limitations and knowledge, it isn't something gained. And that absence feels amazing, because in that absence you are not limited or defined by anything anymore. It is pure potentiality.

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Make sense but something must be lacking if there seems to be a seeking. Why I go do yoga every afternoon , im trying to seek myself. But is the seeking itself that happens because im not aware what I am.

Of course this is more mind. But im trying to understand then why I keep meditating? I keep seeking something, maybe the end of seeking 😂 The end of 'myself' 

It is fine. You must explore the cave first to realize there is no treasure.

Similarly, you must explore the mind to realize there is nothing there.

Edited August 2 by Osaid