Can someone become enlightened through meditation?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Why it's sure that Ramana maharshi was enlightened? Or Ramakrishna, adyashanti, Krishnamurti, etc? Those people were spiritual, they like meditation and yoga, and in their opinion, they were enlightened. What they mean? That they could empty their minds and perceive themselves as pure existence? It's not a big deal at all. Then all of them talked about reincarnation, end of the well, etc , that seems a kind of dogma, and we believe them because they follow a line of though typical in asia, kinda of Buddhism. Maybe they were just scratching the surface,. copying the ideas of others. Many could meditate all day and be happy, what means that? When I was a kid I was very happy playing with a stick for hours, o watching the insects. That doesn't mean nothing 

I don’t know what they are. “Empty their minds and see themselves as pure existence”, that seems a pretty big deal to me, nothing just about anyone could do easily. What is more radical than that? What’s enlightenment to you? For me it’s when it’s permanent and not just temporary. I don’t know tho because I’m not enlightened . 

[Keryo Koffa]

@Andrea Bianca As above, so below. Just like building habits, changing patterns and moving places, it takes awareness, will and dedication to transcend all that causes homeostatic push back. Imagine you have your favorite playlist and you browse the site for new songs, many you don't really like, you look for similar ones to your favorites, but changed up, remixed. Now imagine enjoying every random song to full intensity just as much as your favorites. On one hand, it's great, on the other, you feel a bit uneasy, since now you feel the next step is to delete your old playlist, because it keeps you from listening to new songs and doesn't matter anymore, yet you have so many meaningful memories synchronized with it.

That's identity and meditation is raising awareness and finding contentment, unravelling the ego and being fine with whatever comes your way. In a way, meditation is a prerequisite, in another, you can choose any yogic practice or create your own sadhana because again: As Above, So Below. Lessons learned on one plane, will be shared on others to varying degrees and a lifelong dedicated master to one practice is as if not more far more formidable than a jack of all traits.

And so finally, everything spiritual is meditation. Now, if refer to meditation as the calm sitting quiet activity only, then some will, others will find it difficult, depends on your temperament/style.

Permanence though is very tricky, apparently nothing is permanent, but does that apply to God, I wouldn't even know.

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What’s enlightenment to you?

Perception without barriers. I still perceive barriers in me and in all of them when I have read them, just superficial perception, but who knows. 

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Perception without barriers. I still perceive barriers in me and in all of them when I have read them, just superficial perception, but who knows. 

Maybe you are right I don’t know. Do you have an example of someone who seems truly enlightened to you? 

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Maybe you are right I don’t know. Do you have an example of someone who seems truly enlightened to you? 

Honestly, I ve read not a lot of spirituality. It's something that I have in mind constantly but I can't read about it, it absolutely bores me. It seems to me that all the authors I have read are either wrong or do not express themselves clearly. I have read a little by Jurgen Ziewe and it seems interesting, he says that he can visit other dimensions of existence in a real and absolutely clear way. something practical, concrete, without trying to be mysterious. He explains enlightenment quite good imo

Edited July 31 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Here for example. But that's all? Well, it depends, in my experience, enlightenment is the perception of the reality itself as absolute, immutable. The pure light that is everything, the absolute depth that exists, but it was an experience that I'm not having now, then I doubt. 

If something like that happened 3 weeks ago, it fades, it doesn't mean nothing to me now.

Edited July 31 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Honestly, I ve read not a lot of spirituality. It's something that I have in mind constantly but I can't read about it, it absolutely bores me. It seems to me that all the authors I have read are either wrong or do not express themselves clearly. I have read a little by Jurgen Ziewe and it seems interesting, he says that he can visit other dimensions of existence in a real and absolutely clear way. something practical, concrete, without trying to be mysterious. He explains enlightenment quite good imo

I haven’t read much either. I’ll check him out. That’s cool he can do that, haven’t heard of it before

[Sugarcoat]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Here for example. But that's all? Well, it depends, in my experience, enlightenment is the perception of the reality itself as absolute, immutable. The pure light that is everything, but it was an experience that I'm not having now, then I doubt. 

If something like that happened 3 weeks ago, it fades, it doesn't mean nothing to me now.

That’s why I say enlightenment seems to me when it’s permanent 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s why I say enlightenment seems to me when it’s permanent 

In my experience it happens as the guy in the video says, if you open yourself completely to what reality is, you become consumed, you stop being human, it is incompatible.

Being human implies limitation. You cannot be human and unlimited at the same time, you can glimpse, but what you glimpse is a fire that would destroy you if you opened yourself to it completely.

Having a specific experience implies limiting yourself to having that experience and not infinite experience. With meditation or psychedelics you can partially open your perception, but it is perceived as something radioactive, which burns you inside. It's not just mental understanding, it's opening a breach in the fabric of reality and allowing infinity to shine through. It is another dimension of being totally, something unthinkable. then, after a moment you return to normal perception, and it is unsatisfactory, veiled, but for a while the infinity is transparent in some extent. Then start for fades , and in a couple of days it's totally faded

Edited July 31 by Breakingthewall

[Spiritual Warfare]

Meditation does not lead to enlightenment. Nothing leads to it. It is your true nature. Just allow it. What you call enlightenment is not something to be attained, it is who you are. Meditate with the mindset of being who you are, not because you want to attain anything. Do what makes you feel good all times, not just meditation. Then before you know it, you will realize who you are, and what you call enlightenment.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

Meditation does not lead to enlightenment. Nothing leads to it. It is your true nature. Just allow it. What you call enlightenment is not something to be attained, it is who you are. Meditate with the mindset of being who you are, not because you want to attain anything. Do what makes you feel good all times, not just meditation. Then before you know it, you will realize who you are, and what you call enlightenment.

Enlightenment is attain something, to remove the veil. It's like a energetic change , something that you do, and action. I don't know in what extent it's possible to do that. .

You are what you are, as you said, but the depth of the perception can vary enormously. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Upplysning är att uppnå något, att ta bort slöjan. Det är som en energisk förändring, något du gör och handling. Jag vet inte i vilken utsträckning det är möjligt att göra det. .

Du är vad du är, som du sa, men djupet i uppfattningen kan variera enormt. 

In a sense I agree with you😇

[Sugarcoat]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

In my experience it happens as the guy in the video says, if you open yourself completely to what reality is, you become consumed, you stop being human, it is incompatible.

Being human implies limitation. You cannot be human and unlimited at the same time, you can glimpse, but what you glimpse is a fire that would destroy you if you opened yourself to it completely.

Having a specific experience implies limiting yourself to having that experience and not infinite experience. With meditation or psychedelics you can partially open your perception, but it is perceived as something radioactive, which burns you inside. It's not just mental understanding, it's opening a breach in the fabric of reality and allowing infinity to shine through. It is another dimension of being totally, something unthinkable. then, after a moment you return to normal perception, and it is unsatisfactory, blurred.

I agree. It seems to me tho the self maintains itself automatically, not so much choice involved, I’m having a hard time seeing how one could make a choice to open oneself. It’s like the veil holds itself together without my choice in it. If I take a psychedelic that opens me I can’t help but close then afterwards as the effect is over 

Edited July 31 by Sugarcoat

[Ishanga]

There's a saying that says "You already are Enlightened, You just don't Realize it Yet!", so I am more on this side of the coin. I believe we are full of Potential, the highest Potential for a Human Being is Enlightenment, which is Full Awareness of the Reality and its Nature and You being basically It!

Meditation is too general of a term, but Sadhana is more appropriate, it basically means Spiritual Practice, and there are many available to fit the various personality and Karma types out there, nothing has to be invented or reworked for the "modern person", its just a matter of finding which one works for You the best, that is one of the jobs the Guru performs, they tailor the Sadhana to the Individual...

Its purpose is too not make You Enlightened, but to allow Enlightenment to be Realized, there are many things going on within You right now that is preventing this Realization from Happening, Sadhana takes care of all of that, when that is done then Your There..

It can take 10min or 10yrs or 10 lifetimes, that is up to You, if You do it on your own it will probably take 10 lifetimes, with a proper Guru maybe within this lifetime.. Once You start on some serious Sadhana your Karma will ramp up very quickly, what that means in simple terms, what You normally experience in 10yrs, you may experience in a month or two, what You normally experience in a Lifetime You may experience in a year, so it depends on how the Guru sets things up and lays the foundation, some do it via what I call the Bliss route, they make You Blissful first, then that smooths the road, others do it differently...

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I agree. It seems to me tho the self maintains itself automatically, not so much choice involved, I’m having a hard time seeing how one could make a choice to open oneself. It’s like the veil holds itself together without my choice in it. If I take a psychedelic that opens me I can’t help but close then afterwards as the effect is over 

It seems that there is a constant energy that keeps closed. a vibration of the psyche that encompasses the entire pattern of existence that we are. We are like trapped in a bubble, with our energy bouncing off its walls, without being able to perceive beyond.

with psychedelics sometimes the walls of the bubble dissolve, and perception becomes limitless. Then you realize that there are many things that blocks, Specifically, the one who blocks is you, but you exist as a stable energetic pattern. it is very difficult to see yourself, to understand your mechanisms. The depth of fear is not easily perceived, it is hidden, beneath the surface. Fear is the great wall, and although it is hidden, it manifests itself in many ways.

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Guru sets things up and lays the foundation, some do it via what I call the Bliss route, they make You Blissful first, then that smooths the road, others do it differently

How can a guru cause a change within you? doing what? He can't get into your mind, only you can do it. He could suggest do yoga or meditation, or explain to you some concepts, but what else?

[Ishanga]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

How can a guru cause a change within you? doing what? He can't get into your mind, only you can do it. He could suggest do yoga or meditation, or explain to you some concepts, but what else?

The Guru works on many levels, it depends on many things, factors and such. For eg at certain programs from what I know, during initiation to certain practices the Guru works on the Energy level, they can influence or adjust ppl's energy, fix certain chakra points and such, esoteric stuff yes, but they've been doing it for millennia... Its sort of like standing next to a fire, You get Warm, if You go too close You get burnt, but if You have the right distance and awareness it keeps You warm when its cold outside, so the Guru is like that in metaphorical ways.. They can read Your Karmic makeup, this helps allot, as well see where the Energy blockages and such are, so in many ways they help, they can even give You the experience like a dmt trip, but not for long as it may damage Your system if You stay there too long...In today's world they can also give You concepts, simple intellectual tools that can get You curious, in Sadhguru's Inner Engineering program the first 6 lessons are just this, things about how time works, the mind, the influence of Sound/Mantra, what the meaning of Life is, and its essence too, practical things that create more curiosity but as well give You things You can use right now... 

Edited July 31 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

esoteric stuff yes, but they've been doing it for millennia... Its sort of like standing next to a fire, You get Warm, if You go too close You get burnt, but if You have the right distance and awareness it keeps You warm when its cold outside, so the Guru is like that in metaphorical ways.. They can read Your Karmic makeup

Could be, I suppose that very serious enlightenment seekers would go to India, they would look for the guru who vibrated at their energy level and if the circumstances were the appropriate, it would happen. But how many gurus are? It's very rare thing. At the end you have to be your own guru, and change your energetic and karmic pattern by actions, meditation and psychedelics. But who knows, maybe in any moment a guru appears. I see it very difficult, if there were gurus in every neighborhood, sure, but that's not the case. Maybe there are 1,2, maybe zero, in all the world

 

[Ishanga]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Could be, I suppose that very serious enlightenment seekers would go to India, they would look for the guru who vibrated at their energy level and if the circumstances were the appropriate, it would happen. But how many gurus are? It's very rare thing. At the end you have to be your own guru, and change your energetic and karmic pattern by actions, meditation and psychedelics. But who knows, maybe in any moment a guru appears. I see it very difficult, if there were gurus in every neighborhood, sure, but that's not the case. Maybe there are 1,2, maybe zero, in all the world

 

I agree for the most part, in the end its up too You, its how Willing You are to the process of it, part of it is becoming a Devotee of the Guru, this is very very hard, but there are many examples of ppl today being very gullible to the tribal thinking and so forth, so it happens, but true real Guru's are rare, in human form that is, everything in a way is a Guru, but for practical purposes for Enlightenment sooner or later most will need some sort of guide that can help one along the road, no super athlete has gotten there all on their own, the majority have had some support along the way, but of course there are the rare few that have done it completely alone, this I think has to do with their Karma, they did lots of Sadhana and preparation in previous lives to make it happen in this one...

I think each generation has some, its nature's way to make it a possibility so they are always there, one just has to find them or they come into Your life when needed, like they say "The Teacher will arrive when the Student is Ready" ...

 

[Ishanga]

20 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don't believe in enlightenment in the human lifetime. I have never met an enlightened human, nor read about one.

There is no human being in the world whose description or words have convinced me that they are enlightened. This is a myth, in my perception.

Enlightenment shouldn't be the goal.

The goal should be to be a bit more conscious compared to how we are now, slowly and steadily, without rushing, and to enjoy the process. 

This is a very intimate and private process. And very individual. Because people are different.

This is funny that people even brag about it and use it as some proof of their superiority or something.

I believe that humans can reach very high states of awakening, ultra-awakened states, but it's rare.

I believe that meditation is an effective tool in awakening. The problem is that in our modern world it might be harder to awaken through meditation because it's harder to focus on meditation due to the many distractions of technology.

I believe that there are various good meditation techniques, including breathing and yoga techniques, which are highly effective in altering the conscious state. With long-term practice, this changes the brain and the perception of reality, making people more compassionate, increasing the IQ and stuff, as scientists would say.

And as the non-scientists would say: it is awakening them!

There are Guru's and Enlightened Beings for sure always on this Earth at all times, we may not recognize them as Enlightened, I assume most of them stay quiet and just are the example to others to follow by, that is as well a good way to teach, simply by example!

I don't buy into this thing of "we are all so different" maybe so on the surface, our likes and dislikes, our personalities are different, but go a bit deeper than those surface things and you will find most ppl are pretty well the same, just at differing intensity levels and such. The Ego luv to feel very different, and to tell stories of how different we are... We all have Needs & Wants, we all Want to be More than what we are Right Now... Just see how many ppl are so addicted to their phones, social media, drugs, alcohol, gambling, its like most ppl have been programed lol, so in essence we are essentially the same, only on the surface do we appear different!  Yes some of us have differing level of Physical, Mental, Emotional and Energetic, Creative skill sets, and its cool that we do, imagine everyone being the exact same on these levels, it would be so boring here lol, so uniqueness is something to be in amazement of as well...

Edited July 31 by Ishanga