College Dilemma

[Ayham]

Okay I finally finished high school, my grades add up to an average of 92, which is like, bad since I knew I could do much better, but I really never learned how to be disciplined in studying, only now after I finished, I learned how to actually be disciplined in studying, which is way too late, my grade is one of the lowest in my school since I am in a gifted high school where everyone is much better, kinda a blow to self-esteem, and my parents are the stereotypical Asian parents and idk man.

So I have 3 options:

1. Get in computer engineering (which includes computer science and programming and other stuff), or cybersecurity, I seem to like those because they are very practical, I love tech, and have good future, and I can see myself doing it every day and having fun (I think)
2. repeat my final year in order to get enough grades to get into medical school, which my parents are pushing me for, I used to not really want it but since I love learning, I thought if I study medicine, I will learn the only thing that can't be self learned, and then I can connect medicine and philosophy, but I am not really sure if it is worth it, I could also study medicine in russia or iran or egypt for very low, everything is free to study in my country though, just requires grades
3. maybe aerospace engineering, or some other obscure major

So I don't know man, my life purpose ever since I took life purpose course is to contribute understanding that changes the world, I love non duality, spirituality, western philosophy, physics, history, biology, psychology

I just love learning, I want to synthesize everything I learn and be a true polymath, bring real change into the world, I still want to do a college degree as a backup and for practicality, but I don't really know what to do, seeing all my friends going into secure paths like medicine or having their parents proud of them meanwhile my parents are not, this is pretty damaging.

 

What if all my passions and interests are a phase? what if i regret this in the future? what if i can't make it with passions? what if all of this life purpose and passion stuff is a scam?

which is why I thought I needed to combine practicality and passion, but still man.
Go into computer engineering, back it up with self learning computer science and ai and programming, meanwhile continuing my passions and interests and writing and everything, learn some business and marketing, experiment with various stuff in college

but something feels wrong, I still feel like a disappointment, man I hate this culture, and something is seductive about a prestigious degree in medicine with a secure path, would also back up my plan of being a true polymath, I could be like Avicenna 

[Ero]

@Ayham College is not for everybody, but if you are deeply interested in certain subjects, such as math, physics, engineering, etc. college is really the only place you can learn them. I had similar qualms, because I had always been multi-faceted with a deep curiosity about the world.

I don't know where you are based, but my advice is to try and get to study in the US. There is the only system that allows you to switch majors - I got in Ivy with Physics, switched to CS and eventually ended up with working towards a joint concentration of Pure Math and Statistics.

Reason it would be good to have that opportunity is that you may realize the way the subject is taught is not aligned with your interest. For example, my uni's Theoretical Physics department is all String Theory BS and all else is considered heresy. CS in university is taught mostly language-agnostic and the focus is on algorithms (the stuff of FAANG interviews). What I couldn't bare was the fact that I was going from obscure language to obscure language and was spending an exorbitant amount de-bugging, which was just killing all the fun of it. 

I ended up with Math for two reasons - first, I actually had to work for it, and second, one of my professor told me that with his graduate math education he was able to understand all the scientific papers with minimal background reading. That honestly sounded like a super-power and would allow my ability to switch from field to field if I wanted. 

Now, my advice is the following - college is HARD. I was straight As in the best HS in my country without much effort, but for example last semester I had to work for 10-12 a day throughout all 4 months and I still didn't get all As. So, unless you have a clear vision of why you need to study or you love it, don't do it. This is a video of an MIT neurosurgeon who quit after 10 years of practice sharing similar sentiment - even if you are curious about medicine, the workload would most likely take it out of you, unless you really love it. 

Lastly, don't feel that your degree or lack thereof defines you. It really depends on what you want to do and in general, I know too many people who are not even working what they studied for. I for one, will be one of those. I used my education as an entryway to the US, since I realized long ago that whatever I wanted to do, my home country was too small for it. 

[Staples]

I can totally empathize with this. I had a very similar situation to you after high school. This is what I wish someone told me.

First off, if you haven't yet - do Leo's life purpose course, try and get your parents to buy it for you. They will be happy to invest if you promise them to consider medicine as you go through it. Just keep an open mind as you go through, you might conclude medicine isn't for you.

Right now, your parents do not know what career is best for you, and you do not know what is best for you yet either.

Since they don't know what you're actually put on this earth to do (because you haven't invented it yet), they are suggesting something very responsible and secure because they want you to have a responsible and secure life.

Your immediate first step should be working out what you're actually interested in doing, and how to make good money doing it. People make good money doing all sorts of things. There are people making millions of dollars streaming video games, so you can definitely make doctor money doing pretty much anything if you're smart about it.

The options you've presented are all responsible and secure jobs, what if you did something that was a bit riskier or unique? What job would you invent for yourself if you could have it?

Then spend a week just working out a rough plan that you're open to adjusting in the future, for making that job real.

College can be great if you have done the work I told you to do above and it fits your plan. Don't be afraid to drop out of college in 6-12 months if it's not the path you want to pursue, you will find that out pretty quickly. I dropped out of college courses twice before I finally managed to make my life purpose work. Once in a totally different field, and once in my chosen field because the course was terrible and wasn't worth the time. Going to college was also my excuse to move out of my parents' house. You don't really know how much their thinking style has rubbed off on you until you have been moved out for a few years. Especially if they feel like helicopter parents, a bit of distance can help a lot. At least that's how it worked for me.

Being a polymath sounds good when you don't know your purpose because it means you get to do everything. But literally EVERYONE is sort of a polymath now, the internet made that possible.

It's great you're interested in so many things, but that doesn't mean you have to make any of it your job. I use philosophy, non-duality, psychology every day in my line of work just to inform my decision making. Doesn't mean you have to teach the stuff.

3 hours ago, Ayham said:

What if all my passions and interests are a phase? what if i regret this in the future? what if i can't make it with passions? what if all of this life purpose and passion stuff is a scam?

They are a phase until they aren't. I moved cities twice in my pursuit to enter the industry of my purpose, and only after the second move was I 100% sure that's what I wanted to do. Once I was properly getting paid to work on my purpose I was totally committed. 

3 hours ago, Ayham said:

but something feels wrong, I still feel like a disappointment,

Don't be so hard on yourself. You're a kid who deserves proper guidance on this stuff. It takes time, and you have plenty of time to spend. It took me 5 years, from 17-22 years old, to go from not knowing my purpose to being paid for it.

And yeah, my parents were pretty worried for the first three of those years. Now they're very happy I made those choices.

Edited July 25 by Staples

[Snader]

What's dangerous about testing and seeing if some specific thing is for you or not, is that you tend to give up and decide it's not for you when things get hard, especially if you are not very conscientious and diligent.

Of course it's important to know that your future job will somewhat suit your personality and preferences, but those will usually sort themselves out if your motivation is strong enough.

Developing life purpose is great, but even just getting your values clear and using them as a reference point will make a huge difference. Sure, sometimes we do need jump into unknown and hope for the best, but having some direction makes a huge difference.

Making your parents happy might motivate enough to get you started and even into med school, but when things get nasty and you realize your parents' approval isn't everything, then you might be in trouble. It's really hard to get up in the morning with no reason.

I wouldn't go to med school if I really didn't want it. It's an occupation that requires purpose for you to be good at it AND also happy. As a patient I've had experience from doctors who don't really care and it's not good for either of us.

An extra year might be a valid option as it also gives you more time to find out what you really want and value. When I first applied to uni I didn't even know of all the different options and possibilities there are. Everyone in my circle was going to engineering or economics (due to ignorance or pressure from parents), so that was kinda everything I knew of. Only later after getting out of the bubble, I realized how many interesting options and subjects there are.

 

Edited July 25 by Snader

[Ayham]

Great answers everyone, thank you

@Ero I am from Iraq, studying in the US is not feasible right now for bachelors, but very easy for PHD or other studies.
I am currently really contemplating studying physics, and self learning computer science and programming for practicality.
My passion is mainly philosophy, but i don't think it is worth studying academically in my opinion, something I can self-learn.

I can study physics, link it with philosophy, read outside sources for class material, discuss with professors, that would be a dream, and it gives foundational mathematics for programming, perfect.

I like your story, math's seems cool too.

@Staples I have done Leo's life purpose course, here is my me sheet, I haven't benefited much from the course to be honest, but probably because I didn't really do the making it real exercises yet, I should actually do them.

my parents and culture are very Asian type "doctor" lover people

I really like the plan I presented about physics, but I want to make it financially too, I imagine having a son one day and not being able to bring him something he wants, or not being able to travel and live my youth or whatever.

 Thanks for being understanding man, 

@Snader yeah I get that, I am not sure if I want medicine, everyone in my peers is also going to either medicine or engineering because they are most competitive, my school is also the best in the country so everyone is really great academically, and I am like one of the few bad ones.

[Snader]

1 hour ago, Ayham said:

my school is also the best in the country so everyone is really great academically, and I am like one of the few bad ones.

Don't worry about that. University is generally quite different from high school and you kinda get a fresh start once you start. If you get in, you will have roughly the same basis and from there it will be your attitude and motivation that will determine your competitiveness.

[Staples]

2 hours ago, Ayham said:

 

@Staples I have done Leo's life purpose course, here is my me sheet, I haven't benefited much from the course to be honest, but probably because I didn't really do the making it real exercises yet, I should actually do them.

my parents and culture are very Asian type "doctor" lover people

I really like the plan I presented about physics, but I want to make it financially too, I imagine having a son one day and not being able to bring him something he wants, or not being able to travel and live my youth or whatever.

 Thanks for being understanding man, 

Nice me sheet. Definitely do the exercises properly, there's lots of ways to make physics to work. That's a great vision to motivate you to make money. Fast track is to start college doing physics and make tiktoks or youtube shorts on the side explaining physics concepts. Build a global reputation, and you will get paid. 

Find some role models you'd like to emulate, and study how they make money. Neil Degrass Tyson? If you like teaching.

If you don't come from a rich family or get a lucky break, you have to choose between travel and money in your 20s. I chose money, I have barely travelled but luckily for me travelling doesn't interest me too much.

[Ero]

6 hours ago, Ayham said:

@Ero I am from Iraq, studying in the US is not feasible right now for bachelors, but very easy for PHD or other studies.
I am currently really contemplating studying physics, and self learning computer science and programming for practicality.
My passion is mainly philosophy, but i don't think it is worth studying academically in my opinion, something I can self-learn.

This feels like a solid plan. I think physics is a very solid background because it gives you the ability to transfer knowledge in a manner comparable to mathematics (you learn a lot of math purely from studying physics). My advice is to skew towards the computational and engineering physics, since that would provide you with most applicable/ transferable skillset. 

I also agree with your approach to self-teaching yourself CS, that's what I did. Udemy is superb, but you can even do with YT freecodeacademy. Python is mandatory for research and ML stuff, C++ is a very good physics and analysis tool, JavaScript is useful if you are interested in web apps.  

As far as philosophy, my advice is to not even take classes in it. You will be surprised how little academic philosophy has to do with what I suppose your interested is as it relates to deeper topics of epistemology and ontology. Reading and contemplating with an open mind will be more than enough.

Btw, I sympathize with your visa situation, I have had some issues myself, but not to the extent that your citizenship brings. 

[Ayham]

@Ero can you elaborate on engineering or computational physics? what is that?
and how does mathematics transfer knowledge in your experience?

I like the Harvard computer science courses, CS50 stuff.
Yeah philosophy I can just do it by reading.

[Ero]

@Ayham I am referring to classes/fields of physics that predominantly rely on solving PDEs, such as fluids, plasma physics, heat transfer etc. The approaches are mostly numerical, i.e you predominantly use software for simulation (hence computational). It would be considered more Applied Physics, which sits in contrast to Theoretical Physics, where the end goal is to study the Standard Model in its Gauge Theory format, i.e utilizing Abstract Algebra and Representation Theory/Lie groups to describe the non-abelian U(1) x SU(2) x SU(3) symmetry. 

I will answer your third question with a quote from Gauss, which says 'Mathematics is the queen of the sciences and number theory is the queen of mathematics '. The reason for the first part, is because it sits at the foundation of modern science. For example, having studied Abstract Algebra and Complex Analysis at a graduate level, it took me like 2 weeks to pick up the Gauge Theory formulation, whereas you would normally spend about 6 months building up the pre-reqs to get to that. So, with math, I essentially shrink my time of learning new adjacent topics exponentially. 

I actually skipped CS50 for CS51, I felt it too cult-like and without sufficient focus. But if you don't know python or C/C++, it's actually not a bad way to learn it.  

[Ayham]

@Ero

Perfect answer 

Does the same apply to physics, since it also teaches math? 

[integration journey]

@Ayhamdo you currently live in Iraq? 
I’m from Syria but I  left when I was 16

[Ayham]

@integration journey Yes i live in Iraq 

[Ero]

13 hours ago, Ayham said:

@Ero

Perfect answer 

Does the same apply to physics, since it also teaches math? 

To a large extent, yes. Even though philosophically I don’t agree with reductionism, i.e that chemistry and biology are best explained through physics, the latter is still quite OP due to it being the basis for engineering.

Furthermore, you can use its intuition to solve mathematical systems, similar to what Edward Witten and Martin Hairer did to win the Fields medal.

Statistical physics for example is one of the most powerful frameworks that has inspired a lot of work in math with the study of phase transitions - case in point is the work of S.Smirnov, W.Werner and H.Duminil-Copin (all Fields medalist).

 

[Ayham]

@Ero what if I like the idea of physics? what if I won't actually like it? (I don't have the option of switching major in my country)

hmm
as someone who is scientific, what is your stance on spirituality and leo's opinion on science?

[Ayham]

Okay update
it is clear, I have two choices now

1. major in physics, self learn computer science and programming, do phd and masters in physics, become stage yellow professor and author, combine physics and philosophy with everything else I am into
2. Major in computer science and AI stuff, continue reading books on stuff I like, which includes physics, so self learning anything else, and yes

I am also going to attend a business school either way during summer

 

So either major in something I like (physics) and self study something I also like but not as much and is profitable (CS)
Or major in something mainly for profit (CS) and self study what I love (physics)

hmm
 

[Ayham]

oh wtf i just knew that i can study a bachelors in anything, then get phd and masters in a completely unrelated thing

like i can study computer science and do masters in physics?
damn