Is there a thread about Sonya Massey? Worst thing I've seen since George Floyd

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Yes but reasonably easy to see when stress-tested. The right type of guy will try and calm the situation, the wrong type will agitate it. You can see this going on in all types of police or security videos.

A human is in different emotional states through life and day to day.

Humans are not right and wrong guys per se, they can be the right guy on the right day and the wrong guy on the wrong day.

Maybe this cop's dog died that day or his wife cheated on him? You have no idea.

[Staples]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe this cop's dog died that day or his wife cheated on him? You have no idea.

Yes, but then we should have better systems in place to keep cops who have recently been through traumatic events out of the field. They can do office work. Whatever is being done is not enough.

I wish I could find the channel, but there was an ex-cop who used to make videos on cop culture and the mindset they would drill into the officers. They were taught to constantly be afraid, always thinking three or four steps ahead. What would I do if this person had a gun? A knife? Even in civilian life.

Mental health and culture are so poorly maintained in police departments, particularly the more rural ones. Lots of work to be done there.

Edited July 27 by Staples

[Greatnestwithin]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A human is in different emotional states through life and day to day.

Humans are not right and wrong guys per se, they can be the right guy on the right day and the wrong guy on the wrong day.

Maybe this cop's dog died that day or his wife cheated on him? You have no idea.

@Leo Gura yes AND we hold police to a higher level of standars and rigour because of the power they do have. 

They should be getting training to learn how to regulate themselves. This kind of behavior can't simply be ok. Regardless of how they feel or how their personal Life is going. We hold them to a higher standars 

 

[LSD-Rumi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, well, let's talk after I see you spend 5 years dealing with degenerates who try to stab you in the face.

It's easy to sit on a forum and wax philosophical about what is right and wrong with the world. But none of you here understand what it's like to work with degenerates every day.

A little perspective would be nice.

I have some terrfying gifs stored on my phone of cops being stabbed, shot at, or attacked out of nowhere. That made appreciate why are cops rough and catious, You could be stabbed to death at any momement.

One cop was approaching an ordinary looking man, before that man out of the blue, bursted at him with a knife in hand, stabbing the cop to death. The sounds he made while being stabbed were terrfying, he was sequeling like a pig.

 

Edited July 27 by LSD-Rumi

[PenguinPablo]

@LSD-Rumi All very good points to consider

Thanks for this POV

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Staples said:

Yes, but then we should have better systems in place to keep cops who have recently been through traumatic events out of the field. They can do office work. Whatever is being done is not enough.

Cops barely have enough money to maintain their departments. These are not techbros who can afford $200/hr therapy sessions.

On the one hand leftists cry for Defund The Police and call police racist fascist pigs, on the other hand they expect every cop to go to therapy. It's a joke.

Quote

I wish I could find the channel, but there was an ex-cop who used to make videos on cop culture and the mindset they would drill into the officers. They were taught to constantly be afraid, always thinking three or four steps ahead. What would I do if this person had a gun? A knife? Even in civilian life.

That's because they get shot and stabbed on a regular basis. That's the job. They don't work at Disneyland.

Quote

Mental health and culture are so poorly maintained in police departments, particularly the more rural ones. Lots of work to be done there.

See above.

Edited July 27 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Cops barely have enough money to maintain their departments. These are not techbros who can afford $200/hr therapy sessions.

Police officer salary is middle class and therapy should be covered by their insurance 

[Staples]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Cops barely have enough money to maintain their departments. These are not techbros who can afford $200/hr therapy sessions.

Yeah, it's really a shame. There is room for a visionary leader to raise the consciousness and effectiveness of police departments. But of course, to gather the resources required to make that happen is nearly impossible when the defund the police rhetoric is so popular. 

I wonder if there is data suggesting more police spend on mental health reduces policing critical incidents? That would help steer the conversation.

Do you think we just have to accept a degree of police violence for the majority to work as intended in our time? I could see that being a real, but very politically incorrect possibility.

Edited July 27 by Staples

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Staples said:

Do you think we just have to accept a degree police violence for the majority to work as intended in our time?

That's exactly what we have done.

But of course, tomorrow we could change it if there was the political will.

[Basman]

There are a lot of low hanging fruit that the American government could implement to raise the standard of their police. For instance, there is no federally mandated training minimum.

Bad and corrupt policing is due to a lack of resources and investment into quality policing in my opinion. People tend to meet the bare minimum of the standard set for them.

[Seth]

Attacking a cop pointing a gun at you is a good way to get shot. The cop was fully justified. This is absurd. He wouldn't have shot her if she didn't try to throw boiling water at him. If you think boiling water isn't a threat then try sticking your finger in boiling water one time.

[allseeker205]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what we have done.

But of course, tomorrow we could change it if there was the political will.

I appreciate your perspective on this, but it seems like you're justifying his actions in this situation. To add a little more context he has two DUIs and has worked for 6 agencies in the past 4 years. I don't think him dealing with degenerates is the reason for his behavior. There is a bigger issue specifically with this cop. He should have never been allowed to continue working in law enforcement.

[nerdspeak]

There is something fundamentally wrong about how cops in the US approach the population. They seem to think they're running a counterinsurgency operation in Iraq. 

I wonder why...maybe it's because they recruit a lot of ex-military guys...

The militarization of police in Belgium is also a thing, especially in Antwerp. But the suspicious, hostile vibe is not the same, and it's due to something deeply wrong about the post-9/11 US security state and the effects of non-stop war.

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, allseeker205 said:

but it seems like you're justifying his actions in this situation.

I expect him to be convicted for murder.

So I am not justifying it. Just understanding it.

[BlueOak]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A human is in different emotional states through life and day to day.

Humans are not right and wrong guys per se, they can be the right guy on the right day and the wrong guy on the wrong day.

Maybe this cop's dog died that day or his wife cheated on him? You have no idea.

You need a certain mindset in these types of jobs, where you engage with things that will stress you any moment of any day. No matter your emotion, you have to be able to contain it, and often calm other people's too.

There are always anomalies or things that blindside even perfectly healthy or well-adjusted people. There are people who carry personal tragedy and still perform well under stress: I was just working with one guy today, something broke down, people were getting frustrated, and I was in his ear with questions too. Later, I realize he was going through a breakup with a kid involved and getting no sleep, yet he kept his cool and just needed a break afterwards.

Then there are some personalities who make situations more dangerous or add to stress not less. That is why the people working with men or women involved are best qualified to make these calls. My father, for example, explodes every 5 seconds at the slightest thing going wrong, he'd make a terrible police officer yelling all day every day at everyone.

However, even in your example of someone having a rough time: The person might lose their cool, then realise and correct themselves, the wrong personality wouldn't and would carry on in anger, that would be the difference. 

What do you do when stress hits, calm it down, let it run, or indulge in your anger? 
 

Edited July 27 by BlueOak

[mrPixel]

PTSD is a common occurrence in first responders. This is well documented. Paramedics, firemen, and police deal with a LOT of shit.

I would not be surprised if the higher ups brush this shit aside because of the toxic culture. I'm willing to bet that many officers walk around out there untreated. I don't know many paramedics, but I've known my fair share of cops and firemen. They tend to view mental health disorders as weak, and some don't even believe the shit is real.

https://www.police1.com/health-wellness/articles/5-myths-and-truths-about-officers-and-ptsd-xcLlJb9moaO2lXoz/

What this tells me is that mental health awareness is critical in the police force. This also tells me that police may not just be a bunch of assholes off the street seeking positions of power.

I think there's a lot of truth to what Leo is saying about cops being disillusioned from dealing with shitty people all day. Pair that with PTSD and you've got a recipe for disaster.

In an ideal world we wouldn't need police. People would be kind, caring, and loving. I often imagine a world full of spiral greens and yellows. I really hope we are moving towards that, but right now, we are far from that level of perfection. Until then, an imperfect system is going to yield imperfect results.

[Tech36363]

@Leo Gura keeping what's right and wrong aside, soon he will be suspended if this keeps getting traction 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, mrPixel said:

I think there's a lot of truth to what Leo is saying about cops being disillusioned from dealing with shitty people all day.

I have policed this forum for 7 years. Direct experience is king.

Edited July 27 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Tech36363 said:

@Leo Gura keeping what's right and wrong aside, soon he will be suspended if this keeps getting traction 

Suspended? He was already arrested for murder from what I understand.

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, Tech36363 said:

keeping what's right and wrong aside, soon he will be suspended if this keeps getting traction 

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Suspended? He was already arrested for murder from what I understand.