Is there a thread about Sonya Massey? Worst thing I've seen since George Floyd

[Princess Arabia]

@ParadoxedBoth videos were a trip to watch. I wonder why British cops aren't allowed to carry guns. That knife wielding guy would have been shot to pieces if that were America. Those cops handled it well.

I can't even comment on the other video, but that was blatant murder by those cops. The poor guy was crying. Don't know what he did be he definitely wasn't a threat.

[Paradoxed]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

@ParadoxedBoth videos were a trip to watch. I wonder why British cops aren't allowed to carry guns. That knife wielding guy would have been shot to pieces if that were America. Those cops handled it well.

I can't even comment on the other video, but that was blatant murder by those cops. The poor guy was crying. Don't know what he did be he definitely wasn't a threat.

They may have been shooting a bb gun from the balcony, or they may have just been seen with it. But he really didn't do anything

Edited July 26 by Paradoxed

[oldhandle]

Daniel Shaver is honestly one of the reasons I'll never live in USA again and am immensely grateful to have left.

[Paradoxed]

12 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

Daniel Shaver is honestly one of the reasons I'll never live in USA again and am immensely grateful to have left.

Where did you go? 

Good on you for leaving

[oldhandle]

Europe

[mrPixel]

7 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Don't know what he did be he definitely wasn't a threat

He reached behind his back despite the cops orders not to do so. When people get shot by police, this is why, time and time again. Then people say, "Why did they shoot the man?" It's like, come on. When a cop has a gun pointed at you, you do what you are told. Daniel Shaver was believed to have a gun, that's why the cops were there. The cops adrenaline was flowing, why would you expect anything else to happen?

[oldhandle]

I expect something different to happen because it's absurdly higher than every other developed nation.
 

[mrPixel]

We also have absurdly more guns floating around in citizens' hands.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, mrPixel said:

He reached behind his back despite the cops orders not to do so. When people get shot by police, this is why, time and time again. Then people say, "Why did they shoot the man?" It's like, come on. When a cop has a gun pointed at you, you do what you are told. Daniel Shaver was believed to have a gun, that's why the cops were there. The cops adrenaline was flowing, why would you expect anything else to happen?

You are right, do what you are told. Also when a whatever kind of gun that cop had, whenever a gun is pointed at you, and someone is threatening to shoot you if you mess up on their orders and telling you you might not survive, my pants may be pissing my heart may be racing, I may be thinking how I'll never see my family again etcetc. 

If you saw the video you saw how he obeyed the cops orders to a tee, when he put his hands up straight I thought he was going to tear his arm pits out because he put them up so straight. 

Your fucking response here is an example how people like you and others who feel the fucking same should never be in positions of authority or a cop. You gave a general statement that everybody knows, DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD. Yeah! And. The guy did as he was fucking told. Aren't you acknowledging that. Did you see the fucking video, under that kind of pressure anything can happen let me see you try to fucking walk like a fucking spider when you have 2 machine guns barrelled at you, a cop aggressively shouting at you and threatening your fucking life under the threat of messing up once. Smfh. I hope you never become a fucking cop because who knows who the fuck you might shoot because you didn't use proper judgement.

Edited July 26 by Princess Arabia

[mrPixel]

@Princess Arabia I'm very sympathetic to the victim here. This was a tragedy. I acknowledge that he was complying most of the time during this interaction. You can see in the video that they guy is terrified and was likely behaving in accordance with those feelings.

I acknowledge that there are many bad cops out there as well as many innocent victims of police brutality.

I am not biased towards cops' behavior in general, I'm experienced. I understand first hand of the impact of adrenaline and cortisol and how it affects you in combat situations. I grew up in an extremely rough part of town, was bullied relentlessly, and was forced to engage in many physical altercations. Adrenaline to the max. Eventually I had enough and learned martial arts just so I could defend myself.

Over time I developed a passion for martial arts and entered into competition. Despite years of training, competition was always the same. High adrenaline and unbearable nervousness. You do not behave the same under these conditionsThere is no amount of training that prepares you for the intensity of these emotions.

I would encourage you to pay attention to shooting incidents. It's an almost predictable formula:

Suspect is given orders for the cop's protection. Suspect does not comply. Suspect is shot.

That's all I was saying.

Edited July 26 by mrPixel

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mrPixel said:

@Princess Arabia I'm very sympathetic to the victim here. This was a tragedy. I acknowledge that he was complying most of the time during this interaction. You can see in the video that they guy is terrified and was likely behaving in accordance with those feelings.

I acknowledge that there are many bad cops out there as well as many innocent victims of police brutality.

I am not biased towards cops' behavior in general, I'm educated. I understand first hand of the impact of adrenaline and cortisol and how it affects you in combat situations. I grew up in an extremely rough part of town, was bullied relentlessly, and was forced to engage in many physical altercations. Adrenaline to the max. Eventually I had enough and learned martial arts just so I could defend myself.

Over time I developed a passion for martial arts and entered into competition. Despite years of training, competition was always the same. High adrenaline and unbearable nervousness. You do not behave the same under these conditionsThere is no amount of training that prepares you for the intensity of these emotions.

I would encourage you to pay attention to shooting incidents. It's an almost predictable formula:

Suspect is given orders for the cop's protection. Suspect does not comply. Suspect is shot.

That's all I was saying.

Sorry for coming off so harsh. When I first watched the video, I just wanted to cry for the dude. He seemed to be shitting his pants and to hear you come off so stoic like that as if every situation isn't different, and showed no empathy for him and to see how he was through the whole video complying. You just sounded so cold. This is why I can't sometimes get involved with this stuff because I feel other's pain and I get over emotional when I see stuff like that.

No worries, we all have our unique experiences and respond in different ways depending on those experiences; thanks for not coming back hard on me because i went hard on you. Martial arts does help you with discipline. Funny because I once dated a cop who taught martial arts. His son, who was also a cop, ended up committing suicide. This was before we dated. Cops go through tremendous psychological problems too and ilm aware of that but I just hate to see when stuff like this happens and a life lost under those circumstances. 

[Princess Arabia]

 

[mrPixel]

@Princess Arabia No worries, in hindsight I could have softened my response.

As cliche as this sounds, I'd like for people to see things from both sides. But it's hard to be objective because people lean one way or the other. I get frustrated when people blame the victim, and equally frustrated with others blame the cops. Usually these life or death situations are difficult to see without bias despite questionable acts occurring on both sides.

That said,

I'm a huge advocate for effective training for police officers. They need to learn to subdue unarmed suspects without drawing their guns. BJJ and wrestling are perfect for this. But what people don't understand is that you need to train 2-3 times per week for one to two years to be effective.

That is the reality of martial arts, there is no quick fix. It's repetition, not some weekend training session.

New York is catching on and that's a step forward: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-rener-gracie/

But that's not enough. Training with the same partners every day is not high stress. Cops need to be trained regularly in situations where their adrenaline is pumping so they can learn to keep their cool when they lose the ability to use their minds.

IMO, until this happens, it's going to be the same old, same old.

[BlueOak]

First off:

Do they not carry tasers? If yes, the cop should be up on charges for pulling a firearm vs a steaming bowl of water at a distance.

Second off:

De-escalate first before using force. This is basic. It's the difference between a good security guard, police officer, or anyone capable of using force in a situation; they need to be stable, calm, and trying to calm the situation, not agitate it. The cop is a danger to everyone around him. He has the wrong temperament to be in a position of authority.

Third:

This is why all police officers need basic training in mental health conditions. The woman was clearly unstable and he not only allowed her to go to the stove, he encouraged it. Then shot her at the result of his error in judgement. It was pure stupidity to encourage her to walk toward the potential threat to him, but also a lack of awareness of mental health.

I could go on but yes it's pretty bad. Choosing to go in the premises at all, should have started with them asking her to sit down, while one man remained with her, and the other searched the house. It should have ended (or preferably started) with a visit from properly trained social services and or other trained professionals.
 

Edited July 26 by BlueOak

[Princess Arabia]

56 minutes ago, mrPixel said:

New York is catching on and that's a step forward: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-rener-gracie/

Nice, good to see. NY is right next door to me and i know they have some of the best police officers, so maybe it'll rub off on Jersey's.

[Scholar]

It's definitely the cops fault in this case, socially incompetent.

 

It all started because they both took a step back, explaining that it was because of the boiling water. The cop didn't understand that this offended the woman because it implied she would throw boiling water at them (even though she seems to have just wanted to pour it away). Subsequently she said "I rebuke you in the name of jesus", which the officer took as an actual threat instead of treating it as a woman being offended by what she might have perceived as a racist implication.

Then he started escalating like a complete neanderthal, point the gun at her which immediately made her panic, and at that point you don't know what a person in this mental state might do. At best the cops shoul have retreated if they felt they were in danger, unbelievable that they would stand their ground with this woman and shoot her after basically escalating the situation in the most incompetent way possible.

 

 

US cops are just badly trained. Defund them some more so they get even more incompetent.

[Princess Arabia]

49 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

This is why all police officers need basic training in mental health conditions.

Yeah, that's true; but unfortunately, some States do hire officers who show a little bit of instability on their aptitude test. Not sure how it works fully; but I know of a "crazy" guy who became a cop and later shot his Jamaican gf in cold blood killing her. Years ago this happened. I can also say that the guy I dated years ago who was a cop promoted to sergeant used to have a heroin addiction and used to shoot up when he was very young. I also dated another cop who was an alcoholic and used to have to get shots on the job by the ambulance for passing out. These things happened not while I was dating them, but I could see where they were a bit unstable even though they were decent human beings and on the outskirts it wasn't visible but to a gf it was. 

So, a lot of cops are mentally unstable themselves. Maybe after joining the force or during or whatever. One was a martial arts trainer and the other just a regular Italian Catholic and golf player. They blend right into society but a lot have mental issues. I know because I was surrounded by a lot of them (Of course, ilm only referring to my area...but still). Even as an escort I was hired to join their convention and perform dances and i would be in a room filled with about 200 cops who were drinking and partying with strippers, this was Atlantic City in the casinos. Once I was asked to pee on their buddy and they all gathered around to witness the show. By this time it was only like 15 of them and the party was dwindling down. So cops are normal crazy guys too. 

[Scholar]

You can tell the police officer is likely a genuine sociopath considering the way he commented and framed the situation after he killed her.

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

So cops are normal crazy guys too. 

I understand anyone can snap, or be out of control when drinking, but normal guys trained to understand mental health and handle firearms are not going to shoot someone in this situation. Because why? 

1, Don't direct a mentally unstable person to boiling water.
2, Keep them in a safe place.
3, If the officers are stupid enough to ignore 1 and 2. Pull a taser not a gun
4, De-escalate. This is a mentally ill person, screaming at them is stupid.
5, What did firing the gun achieve? They are saying the water was thrown? Was it going to get put back in the pan to be thrown again?

This is a lack of training in mental health situations, it's an unstable personality (on both sides), it's poor procedure in the initial approach, it's a lack of de-escalation, and its somewhat cultural hotheadedness in the American psyche, it certainly is a systemic cowboy nature in some of the police forces.

You are correct though, a lot of people have mental health issues, only some of them revolve around violence. The people who make situations more dangerous don't need to be in a position of authority and carrying a lethal weapon.

Edited July 26 by BlueOak

[Paradoxed]

16 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

You are correct though, a lot of people have mental health issues, only some of them revolve around violence. The people who make situations more dangerous don't need to be in a position of authority and carrying a lethal weapon.

This type of violent individual is attracted to the authority position in society most likely.