When is it evil to sleep with a girl?

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Why not be honest and sleep with women who you are into and who are into you?

Because if guys did that they would rarely have sex.

Finding a girl a guy is really into is exceptionally rare. Yet the need for sex is common and relentless.

Edited July 20 by Leo Gura

[Asayake]

On 2024-07-19 at 11:28 PM, Butters said:

Exactly as the title says. Some examples might include:

• You aren't that into her but you want sex so you sleep with her (this one happens the most often to me) 
• You manipulate her into sex through one or multiple lies
• You manipulate her into sex without lies
• There's a power imbalance 

Ok and where is the line? Is sleeping around almost always evil? Girls get more attached after sex you know this, while we just want lay. 

Dinving deeper into power imbalance. Just because there's a power imbalance doesn't neccesarily make it evil. It's when there's a power imbalance that's being used in a malicious way where it becomes evil. For example you work in a high up position in a company and offer a better career path if she sleeps with you. You work as a Guru and have brainwashed girls to think you're a good person and they idealize you as a result, and you use that power position to get sex from them. There are many examples where a power imbalance can be used in an evil way.

But power imbalance doesn't neccsarily mean it has to be evil, it could be as simple as the girl having a lower income/eduction/being less experienced/younger age than the guy. Those things are common and don't have to be evil.

[eos_nyxia]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Why aren’t more people understanding that the years of emotional torment it takes just to get the hang of talking to girls is easily worse than whatever betrayal a girl might feel from being tricked into bed?

Honest question: what does it even feel like to be the kind of person where this is the worst (or one of the worst) fates you could possibly conceive of?

From my perspective: it must be nice to have that luxury. Though I'm sure it doesn't actually... feel nice. I get that loneliness and invalidation isn't a joke but...

If this is actually the central point of your being, it's like you're made of paper. You're an animal that can make use of human speech and thought patterns, and not much more. What's even underneath that grief and anger; is there anything at all?

Edited July 20 by eos_nyxia

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This is really shameful.

Why sleep with women whom you are not even into, merely for sex? Women are not masturbation tools, they are humans.

Why not be honest and sleep with women who you are into and who are into you?

I suppose that integrity and honesty are too difficult for some people.

Why are you assuming it’s dishonest? It’s possible to have one night stands where both parties aren’t interested in anything long term. Some people even sleep with their exes. I doubt the women he slept with were super into him either.

Edited July 21 by Raze

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This man is talking about manipulating women, which he isn’t even into, into sex.

He didn’t say he manipulated them in that sentence 

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Why aren’t more people understanding that the years of emotional torment it takes just to get the hang of talking to girls is easily worse than whatever betrayal a girl might feel from being tricked into bed?

Any guy who has developed this legendary skill should feel entitled to use it whenever and however guilt free. He went through hell to get there. The girl can easily find one of hundreds of other guys who’re not only ready and willing to fuck, but also stick around the morning after. They can do this a hundred times more easily than the average guy can get laid at all.

You went way too far.

Your pain is massively blinding you on this issue.

[Emotionalmosquito]

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

what does it even feel like to be the kind of person where this is the worst (or one of the worst) fates you could possibly conceive of?

That’s a straw man. Anyone can conceive of much worse fates. But suffering is a spectrum and that happens to be the worst I’ve got going on right now. It’s worse because it’s chronic and ruthless, unlike temporarily feeling hurt by some douchebag player who promised a relationship only to use you for a night.. Not only that but the game is rigged against us in such a way that we’re automatically assumed to be a threat until proven otherwise. Then there’s the valid worry of making one wrong move when it comes to physical escalation because it can cause legal consequences, pickup is supposed to be an act of flirting with women, not with sexual harassment lawsuits. When mistakes do cause us big trouble, we get fully blamed and told to improve instead of any attention getting placed on the sexist system itself.

The issue goes far deeper than just not getting laid.

4 hours ago, eos_nyxia said:

What's even underneath that grief and anger; is there anything at all?

No. Nothing at all. Same with everyone. What we call our “self” is just an outer projection of what we think we are, such as thoughts, feelings, preferences etc. But at the deepest level we’re nothingness, right? That’s what everyone who masters meditation says

 

[Princess Arabia]

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Why are you assuming it’s dishonest? It’s possible to have one night stands where both parties aren’t interested in anything long term. Some people even sleep with their exes. I doubt the women he slept with were super into him either.

Long-term is not the issue. What i'm talking about is why have sex with a girl you're not into even if it's a one-night stand. The way he made it sound is that he didn't even like her. 

[Salvijus]

When someone is in such a level of torment that tricking someone to sleep with you, you're not even interested in, is the only option to get relief. Then to feel compassion for them is appropriate. And it starts to feel like such trickery becomes justifiable at this point. 

Yet I would give an argument that it's a disservice to justify such a mindset to the one suffering because it promotes a false hope, a fool's gold in a way, that promises happyness but gives you more suffering in the end, even if the endeavor is successful. 

There should some more concious ways to handle that problem imo. 

Edited July 21 by Salvijus

[Something Funny]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Long-term is not the issue. What i'm talking about is why have sex with a girl you're not into even if it's a one-night stand. The way he made it sound is that he didn't even like her. 

And no girl in history has ever slept with a guy she is not fully into, of course.

[Butters]

11 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This man is talking about manipulating women, which he isn’t even into, into sex.

I have a feeling that everybody here has a different definition of what manipulation means. 

Manipulation could literally be another word for flirting. 

• Short skirt = manipulation
• Make-up = manipulation
• "acting a fan" (as the cool girls say) = manipulation
• Eye contact = manipulation 
• Steering a conversation in a direction you choose = manipulation
• Physical escalation = manipulation

Without manipulation nobody would ever get laid. My point was more that I felt unsure in a situation where I steer a girl towards sex because I'm horny and she probably was too, but I was just not that into her so it felt weird. Guess there was chemistry missing there from both sides. 

It's also a strange feeling when a girl places you in that box of "potential provider who I'm not that into". That's a box I don't feel comfortable in so the whole thing feels awkward. 

Yesterday had a date that went MUCH better, and much more naturally. 

Edited July 21 by Butters

[NoSelfSelf]

@Butters The intent is the key if you doing all of that so you can get something out of it is manipulation vs doing it because its a part of who you are.Before you go outside how you are with yourself is how you should be around women not changing yourself for them to get them thats manipulation.

[Butters]

3 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Butters The intent is the key if you doing all of that so you can get something out of it is manipulation vs doing it because its a part of who you are.Before you go outside how you are with yourself is how you should be around women not changing yourself for them to get them thats manipulation.

Dude you are on such a different level on this sub, I don't even know how to respond. 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Butters I just want to learn more and more each day,never satisfied with what i already know nothing special to me.

[Jannes]

On 20.7.2024 at 1:10 AM, Rafael Thundercat said:

I meet girls that just want sex and not getting attached at all. 

 

21 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Exactly. Men are the ones that wanna get pussy whipped. lol

We could make a thread all about that. I always thought that women generally are more emotionally attached but maybe it isnt as straight forward. 

[Butters]

3 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Butters I just want to learn more and more each day,never satisfied with what i already know nothing special to me.

They're just simple observations I've made, not some philosophy I'm invested in. In fact I have aspergers that makes me quite honest and direct, I would benefit from being more manipulative but I have an aversion against it. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Something Funny said:

And no girl in history has ever slept with a guy she is not fully into, of course.

Did I use the word "fully". I also never said females didn't do the same. You have made a lot of assumptions in what i've said and has turned it into a male VS female thing. I made a statement which could have easily been geared towards females also and I never said fully, and I also said even if it's a one night stand.

[Butters]

On 20-7-2024 at 7:21 PM, Princess Arabia said:

Exactly. Men are the ones that wanna get pussy whipped. lol

Literally the words of an oppressor. 

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Butters said:

Literally the words of an oppressor. 

OK I guess I'm an oppressor. Not sure what that means in this case, but I'll take it if that's what you feel don't matter to me. All I said was some men get pussy whipped, take it or leave it or call me an oppressor. Doesn't matter. Seems like the shoe fits especially speaking about laying up with someone you don't like just for the whipp...sounds like a pussy whipper to me. 

Edited July 21 by Princess Arabia

[Something Funny]

@Princess Arabia ok, sorry.