Should I stay in America if it has become too corrupt and too undemocratic?

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, Ero said:

Through totalitarian rule responsible for the deaths of 30-45 Million people.

Yet China's economy is doing brilliant. How come the West didn't impact it negatively despite colonial oppression? 

So is the case with south eastern Asian countries that are gradually picking up speed. 

[Ero]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Yet China's economy is doing brilliant.

That is just not true. I am referencing the Times and the American Enterprise Institute for the following facts:
- China's debt to GDP ratio is 288%
- 'Unless the Chinese government introduces major structural economic reforms that encourage domestic consumer spending, China could experience a Japanese-style lost economic decade'

- China's economy is essentially a bubble - Goldman Sachs' estimation is that 50% of its GDP is from Real Estate (concrete without any value-add other than speculation for market growth) - follow up what happened to Evergrande. Currently more than 65 Million housing units are unoccupied. For reference, that is France's population. New construction is down 60%. 

- China's labor force is declining. 
 

Outside of that, let me just state that I am not arguing for the fact that the West is the sole reason countries are not developed. State corruption and ethnic violence is for example what I would put as the primary reason for the Balkan's underdevelopment, where I am personally from. 
 

[zurew]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is serious academic literature that studies and explains the nature of fundamentalism. It's called The Fundamentalism Project and they have a series of 6 academic level books:

https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/FP.html

Maybe you should read them before mouthing off at me.

Appreciate the link, when I will have time I will look into it. I have no strong position on this, cause Im not read up on any of this.

However, the reason why I was passive agressive is because your statement sounded really reductive and a simplistic analysis. Raze's statement sounded more nuanced and more honest.

Im not sure if any of the books that you referenced agree with your conclusion or not, but regardless appreciate the source.

[Leo Gura]

@zurew Read the books and you will understand what I said.

[questionreality]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Denying is so important.

Do you know what's the first thing that American officers did after their embassy was raided by Iranian youth?

They panicked and shredded all the documents related to the coup of 1953.  

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publications/iran/irdoc.html

The students then reassembled it back.

Denying the US intervention means that they could twist this as a reaction against progressivism and secularism.

The western puppet shah was indeed imposing rapid secularism in a contrived fashion.

They were intentionally destroying the identity of a country so that they could exploit their natural resources. 

It's devilry of the highest sort. It's an engineering more than anything.

See: Covert Regime Change operations.

-----

Now imagine if CIA didn't declassify these documents for some reason. What if all the details of foreign intervention was kept a secret.(They didn't do it voluntarily anyway)

You could argue that the Islamic resistance/fundamentalism was against progressive policies imposed by the dictatorial shah. That's what they expect you to do. 

------

Coming back to Ukraine, you will have to wait another 60 years for the CIA to declassify the documents related to the coup of democratically elected leader of Ukraine in 2014.

Till then there is plausible deniability of western involvement in the coup and the ousting of their democratically leader. 

Iran had a shit ton of oil.

Ukraine has 10 Trillion worth of natural resources buried under it.

They don't even hide their intentions at this point: 

Just like foreign intervention and subsequent sanctions turned Iran into a rump state, Ukraine is headed into the same path.

Same playbook, different places and different times.

Few see it through.

I had no idea that they shredded all the documents in 1953, thank you for sharing all of this

[Leo Gura]

You should note that Ukraine was very corrupt and underdeveloped long before any US involvement.

In fact, if you know anything about Russian history, all of Russia was very underdeveloped relative to the rest of Europe. And Russia only had a fighting chance by copying and importing Western European culture. Russian underdevelopment has nothing to do with Western exploitation. In fact, Western influence helped to modernize Russia. Although it was never enough to cure Russia of its backwardness.

Russians have always been fucked up backwards people. And they remain so today. I know, cause I lived there. I used to shit in hole on my grandpas farm.

Does anyone here know what it's like to shit in a hole? If you slip and fall into the hole, you will drown in a pile of liquid shit.

Edited July 23 by Leo Gura

[questionreality]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

Do you consider all of your responses to be of "high quality"? When someone actually has a constructive position, and bothers to put in the effort to do research and bring historical examples, you shortly respond with the following:

-You are too brainwashed to understand me

- You are too biased to understand me

-You are too low of consciousness (if it comes to spirituality) to understand me

And at the same time you always act like the smartest person to ever live, all knowing, and you never admit that you are wrong.

 

[Ero]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Does anyone here know what it's like to shit in a hole? If you slip and fall into the hole, you will drown in a pile of liquid shit.

Sure I do. The good ol' Eastern European shit hole. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, questionreality said:

Do you consider all of your responses to be of "high quality"? When someone actually has a constructive position

I didn't consider the positions in this thread worthy of serious intellectual engagement because they are based in obvious leftist dogma.

I'm mostly here for my own entertainment. Maybe hoping someday someone will say something intelligent.

Quote

and you never admit that you are wrong.

See my last video.

Edited July 23 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't consider the positions in this thread worthy of serious intellectual engagement because they are based in leftist dogma.

See my last video.

@Leo Gurawhen is the next video up? any heads up would be cool

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo Gurawhen is the next video up? any heads up would be cool

I was working on it today.

[Nivsch]

Western policies enhance the fundamentalistic motivation, but do not create or responsible for it.

Edited July 23 by Nivsch

[questionreality]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't consider the positions in this thread worthy of serious intellectual engagement because they are based in leftist dogma.

Have you not promoted the same "leftist dogma" for years on this forum? 

 

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

See my last video.

I meant admitting you are wrong on a personal level - not making a video breaking down psychology of it, or broadly talking about how you may have been wrong in the past. There is clear difference in those two - as one requires actual display of vulnerability, which you never show.

You call Trump a narcissist (which you are correct to do), yet you are in deep denial of your own narcissism on clear display.  No wonder you hate Trump so much (as a character alone on subconscious level, not taking into account his ideas/beliefs,etc), he is your clear shadow. 

[Bobby_2021]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should note that Ukraine was very corrupt and underdeveloped long before any US involvement.

And how is it looking after western involvement? 

I hope there will be a Ukraine after the end of the year. 

West got it from bad to worse. From poverty to death.

Which is why I say nothing good comes from western intervention. Ukraine left on it's own will modernize itself. But you know the deep state wouldn't allow it.

Edited July 23 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, questionreality said:

Have you not promoted the same "leftist dogma" for years on this forum? 

Leftism is a huge domain. Sure, I subscribe to some of it. But I hope you see that I rarely speak from dogma.

Quote

I meant admitting you are wrong on a personal level - not making a video breaking down psychology of it, or broadly talking about how you may have been wrong in the past. There is clear difference in those two - as one requires actual display of vulnerability, which you never show.

Well, you haven't watched the second half of that video where it gets uncomfortably personal.

Quote

You call Trump a narcissist (which you are correct to do), yet you are in deep denial of your own narcissism on clear display.

I am nowhere close to a narcissist. But I do exhibit arrogance and ego, sure.

I don't deny my faults. I am painfully aware of them.

Quote

No wonder you hate Trump so much.

I don't hate Trump.

I just understand the danger he poses.

Edited July 23 by Leo Gura

[Paradoxed]

2 minutes ago, questionreality said:

I meant admitting you are wrong on a personal level - not making a video breaking down psychology of it, or broadly talking about how you may have been wrong in the past. There is clear difference in those two - as one requires actual display of vulnerability, which you never show.

You call Trump a narcissist (which you are correct to do), yet you are in deep denial of your own narcissism on clear display.  No wonder you hate Trump so much (as a character alone on subconscious level, not taking into account his ideas/beliefs,etc), he is your clear shadow. 

Leo was very vulnerable in his last video and admitted he was wrong on many personal fronts. He cried thinking about the love he gets from his supporters, and how he has not been appreciative of that in the past.

 

[Ero]

@questionreality Your observations about Leo seem to be limited. To call him a narcissist just demonstrates you either don't know the meaning of ASPD or are just being inflammatory. Sure, he has a strong ego. But to question reality is not for the weak. Not displaying vulnerability? This is you not being aware of the many times we have seen genuine tears from him. Do a little research. For the intellectual integrity you accuse him of not having,

 

Edited July 23 by Ero

[Bobby_2021]

Ukraine, then USSR was never free of western involvement. They were literally at war with each other.

USSR was always under sanctions by the US during the cold war that Leo had to take a shit in a hole in the ground. That is because the US overthrew every single one of allies of the USSR by bombing, invading and sanctioning them.  So obviously they were under severe economic strain. If the USSR could trade freely with the rest of the world, then Leo could have bought a toilet.

One strength of the US is that it is good at dominating other countries into subjugation and covert and overt violence. So the US won over the USSR by sheer force. Hence they were left in abject poverty. That is not because of internal corruption. It is because they lost a war.

US defeated the USSR. Hence USSR were economically stifled into dissolution among other factors. Period.

--------------------------------

The US again got involved in the internal matters of Ukraine by ousting their democratically elected leader in 2014.

No matter how corrupt they were, Ukraine went downhill from there on.

The point is that Leo does not take into account the larger context in which things happen and just blame people for being corrupt. Maybe explore why they are corrupt? Nah that is too complex.

This is good enough to flex on this forum, but there will be someone who have more context than you. And that will be Truth. Not yours.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I spent a good amount of time in Russia as a child, and I was shocked at how poor and underdeveloped the country was.

People definitely had a more direct and rude way of talking, much more vulgar in their speech.

One of my grandpa’s friends was an alcoholic who died prematurely due to his drinking. When I was a small child, he went on a bizarre rant to me about how much America was bad.

A lot of Russians have never been outside of Russia, have never been to America, literally dedicate in outhouses. And yet, when you bring up America, the response is, “Oh, America? What a terrible place! We already live in the best country”.

[Nemra]

@Husseinisdoingfine

My grandma, who lived in Russia for years, worships Putin and still watches the Russia-1 TV channel. Anyone who has or seems to have a problem with Russia is the enemy for her.

Edited July 23 by Nemra