Should I stay in America if it has become too corrupt and too undemocratic?

[Leo Gura]

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

[El Rio]

Row your boat (where ever you want) life is but a dream.

[Yimpa]

On 7/22/2024 at 4:27 PM, El Rio said:

Row your boat (where ever you want) life is but a dream.

Keep on dreaming Edward Smith…

 

Edited July 24 by Yimpa

[Rafael Thundercat]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

Smell like a bit gaslighting. A bit. 

[Raze]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

Well you aren’t really arguing it well.

I don’t think western interference is the only reason why other countries have less development, but in some cases it can be.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Civilization-Citzen,Citadel, vs Savage,Barbarian,etc... These Great Empires were so Advanced that we only find ruins. What will be of the Supra-Advanced Empire of America? Crumble down from inside? Looks like is the route that is taking. Lets admit. 

When the Earth is Disrespected and Desacrated will never end well. The Civilization System is Dependent of The Biosystem. Is not even a question of partidarian wars or culture wars, is a complete blindness of the obvious, we are Nature bound, we can create utopic fantasies in our minds but in the end to be able to write this lines I had to dinner,drink water, get sunligth, and all nature provides. Is the Autocracy of Nature, we cant vote it out, in the Live elections there is only one winner, the Earth, and we will disapear if we keep as entitled brats exploiting it the way we do.

[Rafael Thundercat]

America is Undemocratic since the start. Does the local natives had any vote about the future of their Lands? 

No, same as Palestine today had no vote about the destruction of their houses,families and culture. Very far histories from each other but again the same script Dominion of some over the others and interference with no respect and no acountability with consequences.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_history_of_the_United_States

 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

Why do you think what you say is so important?

you should be open and less emotional in your reactions. More conscious. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Founding Fathers? Or Frauding Fathers. 

If this guy in the video can be discredit I will belive that America was Founded with Integrity but I guess the Docrine of Discovery is a well stablished thing. 

So there was not Discovery, was Stealing,Killing,Settleling and the Tone of America was set to be a Bullier of All Nations, till these days. Is the Pathological Spirit some call Wetiko. 

 

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are so brainwashed with progressive politics that you are no longer capable of understanding what I say.

Sad.

What are you even saying?

Here is what you are saying:

"Development is really complicated" 

"You guys are brainwashed" 

"Overthrowing democracy and foreign intervention has nothing to do with regression in development"

"Progressivism in anywhere but the west is "unsustainable"......" Loool

"western progressivism and eastern underdevelopment has nothing to do with stealing Trillions from the global South on a yearly basis."

Lolololol.

Try making an actual case for what you saying with historical examples instead of making haphazard statements that could be interpreted ambiguously.

I am not saying you are wrong, but you are not making a good case for it.

Look at how I made my case. I drew a strict timeline of how social order was disrupted resulting in regression of development, by foreign intervention with many examples.

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Well you aren’t really arguing it well.

I don’t think western interference is the only reason why other countries have less development, but in some cases it can be.

I don't think this point should be a point of contention.

Foreign intervention is for advancing foreign interests. Not local interests.

Understanding that point alone is enough. I have given n number of examples in this thread.

Geography and other factors being a bottleneck to development is rare. Even that doesn't give you a reason to exploit them, though.

[Bobby_2021]

8 hours ago, questionreality said:

I cannot believe that LEO is actually denying these obvious things, that are right on the surface. My guess is people don't want to admit these things to themselves, as deep down it would show the damage that was done in the name of secularism, progressivism, freedom, democracy. 

Denying is so important.

Do you know what's the first thing that American officers did after their embassy was raided by Iranian youth?

They panicked and shredded all the documents related to the coup of 1953.  

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publications/iran/irdoc.html

The students then reassembled it back.

Denying the US intervention means that they could twist this as a reaction against progressivism and secularism.

The western puppet shah was indeed imposing rapid secularism in a contrived fashion.

They were intentionally destroying the identity of a country so that they could exploit their natural resources. 

It's devilry of the highest sort. It's an engineering more than anything.

See: Covert Regime Change operations.

-----

Now imagine if CIA didn't declassify these documents for some reason. What if all the details of foreign intervention was kept a secret.(They didn't do it voluntarily anyway)

You could argue that the Islamic resistance/fundamentalism was against progressive policies imposed by the dictatorial shah. That's what they expect you to do. 

------

Coming back to Ukraine, you will have to wait another 60 years for the CIA to declassify the documents related to the coup of democratically elected leader of Ukraine in 2014.

Till then there is plausible deniability of western involvement in the coup and the ousting of their democratically leader. 

Iran had a shit ton of oil.

Ukraine has 10 Trillion worth of natural resources buried under it.

They don't even hide their intentions at this point: 

Just like foreign intervention and subsequent sanctions turned Iran into a rump state, Ukraine is headed into the same path.

Same playbook, different places and different times.

Few see it through.

[Raze]

44 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 

I don't think this point should be a point of contention.

Foreign intervention is for advancing foreign interests. Not local interests.

Understanding that point alone is enough. I have given n number of examples in this thread.

Geography and other factors being a bottleneck to development is rare. Even that doesn't give you a reason to exploit them, though.

- there is such a thing as mutual interest 

- there were many historical civilizations with had limited contact with others and they all had varying rates and levels of development 

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Lolololol.

Suit yourself.

I am not going to spoon-feed you here.

[Bobby_2021]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

there is such a thing as mutual interest 

Mutual interest is what you call business and trade, where either parties get paid fairly. We should do as much trade as possible. Guess what stands in the way. SANCTIONS.

"let us steal your oil or get sanctioned"

Mutual interest is not what the west wants. They want criminal domination, enacted with sanctions. 

Most foreign interventions, in reality, serve no one's interests in the long term. Look at how Iran has become the biggest pain in the ass for Is***l and US.

[Bobby_2021]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Suit yourself.

I am not going to spoon-feed you here.

What spoon feeding are you talking about? I did most of the spoon feeding you and you didn't even take the effort to address it.

Especially Ukraine and Afganistan situation while plainly denying in the case of Iran with no explanation of any sort. That not soon feeding bruh that a lazy ass response.

I did most of the effort in digging up materials, historical examples and got only lazy responses from you that didn't add much to the conversation.

I consider this conversation to be over. I might point out the devilry though. Most people are unaware of it.

[Buck Edwards]

35 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Denying is so important.

Do you know what's the first thing that American officers did after their embassy was raided by Iranian youth?

They panicked and shredded all the documents related to the coup of 1953.  

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nsa/publications/iran/irdoc.html

The students then reassembled it back.

Denying the US intervention means that they could twist this as a reaction against progressivism and secularism.

The western puppet shah was indeed imposing rapid secularism in a contrived fashion.

They were intentionally destroying the identity of a country so that they could exploit their natural resources. 

It's devilry of the highest sort. It's an engineering more than anything.

See: Covert Regime Change operations.

-----

Now imagine if CIA didn't declassify these documents for some reason. What if all the details of foreign intervention was kept a secret.(They didn't do it voluntarily anyway)

You could argue that the Islamic resistance/fundamentalism was against progressive policies imposed by the dictatorial shah. That's what they expect you to do. 

------

Coming back to Ukraine, you will have to wait another 60 years for the CIA to declassify the documents related to the coup of democratically elected leader of Ukraine in 2014.

Till then there is plausible deniability of western involvement in the coup and the ousting of their democratically leader. 

Iran had a shit ton of oil.

Ukraine has 10 Trillion worth of natural resources buried under it.

They don't even hide their intentions at this point: 

Just like foreign intervention and subsequent sanctions turned Iran into a rump state, Ukraine is headed into the same path.

Same playbook, different places and different times.

Few see it through.

Don't you think that lack of development in eastern countries is sometimes due to their own mismanagement of infrastructure? 

 

[Bobby_2021]

14 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Don't you think that lack of development in eastern countries is sometimes due to their own mismanagement of infrastructure? 

What countries are you talking about? If it is about India, then yes, our infrastructure has been mismanaged for a little over 300 years by the British rule. It will take some time to get back on track. Centuries of exploitation will not reversed in a few decades. That's not how it works.

I know it's completely our fault, but you shouldn't interpret that out of context.

Edited July 23 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What spoon feeding are you talking about? I did most of the spoon feeding you and you didn't even take the effort to address it.

Especially Ukraine and Afganistan situation while plainly denying in the case of Iran with no explanation of any sort. That not soon feeding bruh that a lazy ass response.

You cannot account for the lack of development of nations by appeals to Western exploitation. That is an insufficient theory, motivated by obvious short-sighted political biases.

That is all.

You can dance around it all you want, but what I said is true.

Edited July 23 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What countries are you talking about? If it is about India, then yes, our infrastructure has been mismanaged for a little over 300 years by the British rule. It will take some time to get back on track. Centuries of exploitation will not reversed in a few decades. That's not how it works.

I know it's completely our fault, but you shouldn't interpret that out of context.

But then how did China recover? 

[Ero]

16 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

But then how did China recover? 

Through totalitarian rule responsible for the deaths of 30-45 Million people.