Should I stay in America if it has become too corrupt and too undemocratic?

[Nemra]

7 hours ago, josemar said:

At least they didn't impose their made up pronouns and sexual orientation on you.

It's funny how people in less developed countries are too afraid of what you say while being involved in the corruption at the same time. Ironically, they do impose, but their favorite ones. 😂

Edited July 21 by Nemra

[ryoko]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are all scammers, looters, rapists, theives, and human traffickers

Earth to Leo. Tourists don't know the richness of a land.

[josemar]

53 minutes ago, Nemra said:

It's funny how people in less developed countries are too afraid of what you say while being involved in the corruption at the same time. Ironically, they do impose, but their favorite ones. 😂

Oh? What country is less developed? And all people are involved in corruption? You're clueless.

[Nemra]

10 minutes ago, josemar said:

Oh? What country is less developed? And all people are involved in corruption? You're clueless.

Gaslighting me won't help you.

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, ryoko said:

Earth to Leo. Tourists don't know the richness of a land.

Indeed. Tourists have no clue of the criminality and corruption at the heart of every 3rd world nation.

[HelluvaGuy]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Being an average citizen in the western world is like being Andrew Tate's children. You will be rich and grow up with a good standard of living, but never know about the dark shit your daddy govt had to do to get you to this level of quality of life.

Are you saying there is no poverty in the west? You'd be surprised. 

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't kid yourself, the 3rd world are experts are stealing, looting, and enslaving their own. Look at the Middle East, Africa, India, China, South America. They are all scammers, looters, rapists, theives, and human traffickers. None this devilry is unique to the West. The West just does it in more effective and refined ways, at an industrial scale.

Bad false equivalence.

A man stealing a bag of rice to feed his kids is not the same as CEOs looking like fat pigs stealing Trillions from entire freaking countries.

Talk about scale.

Perhaps they wouldn't have had to scam you if they were allowed a dignified life. Industrial scale scamming and looting is specific to the west. 

You are more likely to get scammed in Palestine than in Israel. I wonder why.

You are more likely to get scammed visiting Afganistan than US. I wonder why. 

Omg it's so hard for you guys to not bomb countries and hit them with sanctions and cry about being scammed for a few dollars.

Get a life Lol.

[Bobby_2021]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937802200005X#:~:text=Rich countries rely on a,of underdevelopment and global inequality.

How is scamming tourists really scamming if we are just taking our own money back. 

Drain from the South is only 10 Trillion $$ per year guys, not much.

West and East are equally scammers. Nothing peculiar to the west. Completely normal behaviour. 

Edited July 21 by Bobby_2021

[VictorB02]

I've talked to many locals here in Bali, they are all happy when I tell them I am American - and then 8/10 proceed to laugh about the Biden and Trump situation. Some laugh and say "ahhh Trump huh!", some laugh and say "ahhhh Biden!". It seems our entire situation is kind of a joke to them, but they love tourists because it gives them massive opportunity. I had a grab driver (Indonesias Uber) give me a free ride on his scooter from the beach to my villa, just because I told him I was American. He said: "This ride is free, thank you for coming and spending your money here Bali."

A lot of them also say "Obama! Obama!" after I tell them where I'm from. (Not sure exactly why, but I guess he did a lot for Indonesia while he was in office?)

~

I can't tell you how many Indonesian locals I've met that are around my age, living a completely different life. One dude my age took me from one Villa to my next one across the island, and he was telling me along the ride how it's practically impossible for him to ever leave Bali. Even with the work tourists bring, it's just not enough for them. He said 90% of people will only make $200-$400 USD max per month, while the other 10% are born into wealthy / highly political families.  For work, almost everyone is a service worker for tourists (waiter, hotel receptionist, grab driver, masseuse), a farmer, or a construction worker. That's really it. I don't even think they have colleges here, I haven't seen one... I have seen a school though, all the kids were wearing uniforms. It's just obvious that their education system is simply not developed enough to teach them skills that they could really make good money for or use to bootstrap themselves out of their situation. 

I guess, technically speaking, they all have access to the internet and could learn skills online and bootstrap themselves that way, but how many of them are even aware that that is a possibility? And how many can even afford to have a laptop? Probably very few.

~

When I ask how their politics are, most of the locals tell me it is corrupt. No surprise there really.

I've also been swindled and lied to many times by locals trying to get a bit more money out of a sale or a grab ride, but I really can't blame them. I actually think I've tipped more money to local people trying to swindle and upcharge me than I have to restaurant and hotel workers because I can see they are only doing it because of the position they are in. Still devilish and sneaky, but my compassion kicks in and I kind of play along and let it happen, which is kind of a weird thing.

It's just the vast difference between the power of their currency and the USD is ridiculous. 100,000 IDR = $6.17. Honestly, it's made me sad many times on this trip, especially seeing the Indonesian peers my age, how a drastic a difference in where you are born basically determines the entire frame of how your incarnation in this life will go. But what's equally shocking and uplifting is how friendly, kind, and nice everyone is. Especially the surfer dudes on the beach - they call themselves the "Balifornians" and jam Bob Marley with smiles on their faces every morning, giving surfing lessons to tourists. I enjoy listening to them while I read Huxley with a latte.

~

Regardless, I would say the United States is the place to be. It may seem like the grass is greener in these other countries - and they have their perks do not get me wrong. The Incredible nature, the beautiful culture, the amazing history, the kind locals, etc... but the lack of development is the obvious elephant in the room. Nothing compares to living in the United States, even with the shit we are dealing with now. It's just that you don't realize how nice you have it when that's all you've known. 

Edited July 21 by VictorB02
typos, better details

[Rafael Thundercat]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They are all scammers, looters, rapists, theives, and human traffickers. None this devilry is unique to the West. The West just does it in more effective and refined ways, at an industrial scale

To say they are "all" is clearly an exageration from your part and generalization. But to agree with the part that "some"  People in the 3th World are devils professionals I share the late case of Kat Torres, the Fake Coach,Witch,Trafficer of Girls 

From Brasilian Model to Jail. From Instagram Influencer to Jail.

 

 

[Staples]

@Bobby_2021 I want people in all countries to be happy and to eliminate the exploitation my country engages in. How do you suggest we solve this issue then? I'm hearing a lot of pain and frustration at the west but no attempts to suggest a positive and healthy solution.

It's an unhealthy habit to demonize westerners and make no attempt to solve the problem with love.

Edited July 21 by Staples

[Staples]

32 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

I guess, technically speaking, they all have access to the internet and could learn skills online and bootstrap themselves that way, but how many of them are even aware that that is a possibility? And how many can even afford to have a laptop? Probably very few.

Exactly, if you have a stable internet connection and learn English you can bootstrap pretty much anything. But to realize that as a possibility as someone growing up in an underdeveloped country is very rare and difficult.

[ryoko]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Indeed. Tourists have no clue of the criminality and corruption at the heart of every 3rd world nation.

That goes both ways man.

I'm from a third world country. Not gonna pretend there's no hostility and corruption. But there's another side to it, there's richness in culture. But a tourist have not much ways to fathom it. And it can be alienating, either way.

Plus, if you're thinking of migrating. Don't think you can adapt to the economy ever. It's impossible to get a job or work in a third world country's economy. And there's serious lack of opportunities in places worth living in. It's more like, are you cut out for living in this particular environment? I would avoid anything other than "Tropical Evergreen Forest" biome. Most of Phillipines, Indonesia, Kerala(India) is actually good if you can manage to find a good community to settle in, provided you have the finances taken care of. 

One more thing, you can't live the same way you've lived in USA, it can feel very restricting, in terms of people's attitude regarding many things. But that's exactly what keeps the culture alive. For example, in Indonesia, living together is illegal. You already get the point. 

Here's the map I'm referring to. 

Edited July 21 by ryoko

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

 

 

Edited July 21 by Rafael Thundercat

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Staples said:

How do you suggest we solve this issue then?

Stop bombing kids. That would be a good start.

1 hour ago, Staples said:

It's an unhealthy habit to demonize westerners and make no attempt to solve the problem with love.

Because you bomb kids and infringe on the sovereignty of others people.

What do you expect? Of course you will get hate.

1 hour ago, Staples said:

I'm hearing a lot of pain and frustration at the west but no attempts to suggest a positive and healthy solution

Everyone is shouting healthy solutions in your face literally all the time.

Stop bombing kids. Stop invading other countries. Stop engaging in random wars. Nobody likes you.

[aurum]

16 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What do you expect? Of course you will get hate.

But that hate is also exactly what is distorting your perspective on this.

You’re going to have to set aside your anti-western bias to see this issue with more objectivity. Up to you whether that’s something you are interested in. You could also just claim I have a pro-western bias and move on.

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Staples said:

@Bobby_2021 I want people in all countries to be happy and to eliminate the exploitation my country engages in. How do you suggest we solve this issue then? I'm hearing a lot of pain and frustration at the west but no attempts to suggest a positive and healthy solution.

It's an unhealthy habit to demonize westerners and make no attempt to solve the problem with love.

The population is basically trapped under three pillars, but they can’t remove one pillar because the other two crush them. 

Military industrial complex and other lobbies buy politicians  - but you can’t regulate them because they buy the politicians who make the regulations

The politicians make war and won’t regulate the lobbies - but you can’t vote them out because the media blocks the public from knowing what they’re doing and crushes opposition 

The media blocks the public from the truth through manufactured consent - but you can’t stop them because you need the media to educate the public to want change but the media itself is stopping this 

Edited July 21 by Raze

[Bobby_2021]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

But that hate is also exactly what is distorting your perspective on this.

You’re going to have to set aside your anti-western bias to see this issue with more objectivity. Up to you whether that’s something you are interested in. You could also just claim I have a pro-western bias and move on.

These words are empty mate. What are you trying to say? 

Of course I have a do-not-bomb-kids bias. If that translates into an anti western bias, you know where the problem is.

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

The population is basically trapped under three pillars, but they can’t remove one pillar because the other two crush them. 

Military industrial complex and other lobbies buy politicians who make war - but you can’t regulate them because they buy the politicians who make the regulations

The politicians make war - but you can’t vote them out because the media blocks the public from knowing what they’re doing and crushes opposition 

The media blocks the public from the truth through manufactured consent - but you can’t stop them because you need the media to educate the public to want change but the media itself is stopping this 

Basically capitalism eating itself out.

Yet to see where this lands.

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Of course I have a do-not-bomb-kids bias. If that translates into an anti western bias, you know where the problem is.

You are now running away. What would you suggest western leaders to do against Isis?

5 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Basically capitalism eating itself out.

Yes like every ideology taken too far.

Edited July 21 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Leftist critiques of capitalism are delusional. A leftist doesn't understand economics nor business.

Too cute that you think any respectable left exist in the United States. The left we have now is struggling to cope within the larger capitalist framework and propaganda.

Socialism can work. 

Socialist economics work. 

Socialism made humanity a space faring civilization.

They did understand economics and business quite well.

Like you said earlier, socialism/leftism needs higher development to work. 

When the capitalist machine is ruthlessly attacking or bombing left leaning governments and overthrowing their democracy, they crumble and regress back a few stages.

A proper leftist government without foreign interference would work like a charm.

China is a larger economy than the US lol. And you think they don't understand economics?

Maybe start giving more respect to anything that comes from outside of burgerland?

Edited July 21 by Bobby_2021