Needs vs desires: getting rid of them is liberation

[Schizophonia]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

To give even more profane example..So if one is a pedophile and not yet "advanced in meditation "...how in your opinion should he manage his desire? 

Psychoanalysis.

[Someone here]

@Schizophonia ok thanks. But we Bre deviating from my main point .

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Psychoanalysis.

Did you personally done some ?what is your actual experience with dealing with intrusive impulses?

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Every cause ..will bring an effect. .if you stopped breathing...you will die...just that. .you don't NEED to breathe.  you need to breathe if you need to live. but what if you don't need to live?  Because you can never die..now to realize that is what I mean by "liberation ".

Share your thoughts please. Thanks 

@Someone here Nice one!

 

Breathing is a function of the body, is not your 'function'. Is not something fundamental of you.

The body needs to Breath to exist. You do not need breathing to exist.

You can try this several times:

 for 20-30 seconds notice how the act of breathing is happening and nurturing the body.

Then, take a big inhalation, and then a big exhalation, and stay there in the emptiness of breath, for 10-20 seconds (whatever is comfortable for you).
 

During this 20 seconds, keep looking at your body.

Notice that during those 20 seconds, you Exist. 

So during this 20 seconds, breathing didn´t happened. Yet You exist during those 20 seconds. 

This simple realization just tell us that we exist even when there is no breathing. 

Quote

Because you can never die..now to realize that is what I mean by "liberation ".

Yes, if you exist as something fundamentally independent from the body, you are Liberated.

But we must remind ourselves, that for it to be Liberation it must be a living experience, not just a belief. To experience this body as something that is ours but is not us, then if body is gone, what is the fear? If clearly one is stablished in something beyond the body, death of the body is not a problem. 

Edited July 18 by Javfly33

[integral]

I worked with Claude 3 on this problem a bit

Strategy for Overcoming All Desire - Detailed Examples

1. Develop Awareness
- Practice mindfulness meditation: Set aside 10 minutes daily to sit quietly and observe your thoughts. When a desire arises, simply note "wanting" without judgment.
- Keep a desire journal: Each evening, write down 3-5 desires you experienced that day. Note their intensity and any patterns you observe.

2. Understand the Nature of Desire
- Study texts: Read works like the Buddha's teachings on the Four Noble Truths or Stoic philosophy. Take notes on their perspectives on desire.
- Reflect on impermanence: Next time you buy something you've been wanting, note how long the satisfaction lasts. Does it fade? How quickly?

3. Cultivate Contentment
- Gratitude practice: Each morning, list 3 things you're grateful for, no matter how small.
- Simplify: Choose one area of your life (e.g., your wardrobe) and reduce it by 20%. Notice how it affects your desires for more.

4. Address Root Causes
- Self-reflection: Write about a strong desire you have. Try to trace it back to its origins. Does it stem from a childhood experience or societal expectation?
- Therapy: If you identify recurring patterns of desire tied to past experiences, consider cognitive-behavioral therapy to address these.

5. Reframe Perspective
- Mental labeling: When a desire arises, try labeling it as "just a thought" or "passing phenomenon."
- Downside contemplation: For a major purchase you're considering, make a list of potential negatives (maintenance, storage, etc.) alongside the positives.

6. Gradual Detachment
- Start small: Choose a minor habit, like checking social media, and abstain for a day. Gradually increase the duration.
- Progressive challenge: Identify your "hierarchy of desires." Start with easier ones to let go, like brand preferences, before tackling stronger desires.

7. Channel Energy
- Volunteer: Dedicate time each week to a cause you care about. Notice how it affects your personal desires.
- Flow activities: Engage in an absorbing activity like painting or gardening. Observe how it alters your relationship with desires.

8. Physical Practices
- Fasting: Try intermittent fasting (e.g., 16/8 method) under proper guidance. Notice how it affects your relationship with food cravings.
- Yoga: Practice yoga nidra for deep relaxation. Pay attention to how it influences your desires and attachments.

9. Cultivate Higher Purpose
- Mission statement: Write a personal mission statement focused on how you can contribute to the world, rather than what you can get from it.
- Philosophical inquiry: Spend 10 minutes daily contemplating questions like "Who am I beyond my desires?" or "What is the nature of consciousness?"

10. Community and Support
- Join a group: Find a local meditation group or online forum focused on minimalism or spiritual growth.
- Mentor relationship: Seek out someone who embodies the qualities of non-attachment you admire. Ask if they'd be willing to guide you.

11. Patience and Persistence
- Progress tracking: Keep a monthly log of your efforts and small victories in overcoming desires.
- Setback plan: Develop a compassionate response for when you give in to a desire. Maybe a mantra like "This is part of the process" to avoid discouragement.

12. Transcendence
- Non-dual meditation: Practice advanced meditation techniques that dissolve the sense of a separate self.
- Equanimity exercises: When a desire arises, practice remaining equally at ease whether it's fulfilled or not.

*Remember: This is an intensive process that challenges core aspects of typical human experience. Approach it gradually, maintain balance in your life, and seek professional help if you experience distress.*

 

Bigger Picture: Change Relationship with Desire

This diagram illustrates a different approach to desire, focusing on acceptance and flow rather than overcoming. Here's an explanation of this perspective:

Accepting Desire:

• This approach recognizes desire as a natural part of human experience.
• Instead of trying to eliminate desires, it focuses on changing our relationship with them.

Going with the Flow:

• This concept suggests aligning with the natural ebb and flow of desires rather than resisting them.
• It can lead to reduced suffering as we're not constantly fighting against our experiences.

Mindful Awareness:

• This involves observing our desires without judgment.
• By understanding the nature of desire, we can respond more skillfully.

Non-Attachment:

• This doesn't mean not having desires, but rather not being controlled by them.
• We can experience desires without clinging to them, leading to a form of freedom.

Higher Wisdom:

• This perspective suggests that there's wisdom in accepting our human nature, including our capacity for desire.
• It promotes harmony with life's natural rhythms rather than constant struggle.

The benefits of this approach might include:

• Less internal conflict and stress
• Greater self-acceptance and compassion
• More energy for positive action, as less is spent fighting desires
• A more sustainable and balanced approach to personal growth

This perspective aligns with various philosophical and spiritual traditions, including aspects of Taoism (wu wei or "non-doing"), certain Buddhist practices (mindfulness and equanimity), and modern psychological approaches like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.

It's important to note that "accepting" desire doesn't mean blindly following every impulse. Rather, it's about acknowledging desires as they arise, understanding them, and making conscious choices about how to respond.

This approach could be seen as a middle path between indulgence and suppression, offering a way to engage with desires that promotes inner peace and alignment with one's deeper values.

What are your thoughts on this perspective? Does it resonate with your experiences or intuitions about desire and liberation?

https://claude.site/artifacts/4f34adde-62d4-46da-ad93-ac6c2e242bab

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

.  Because one can live his whole life without petty desires like sex and money and fame ..but he can't survive without food and water. 

How you gonna buy the food without money; and yes one can survive without food - it's called a breatharian.