Elon Musk goes full MAGA

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

WTF Leo. 

I just gave you a fact.

You cannot make factual errors and blame for me being dogmatic while I point it out.

I made no factual errors. 

I am fully aware that Musk did not start Tesla. That fact is irrelevant to what I said about Musk.

Leftists love to parrot that fact as if takes anything away from Musk's insane work effort in making Tesla successful. Without Musk Tesla would be bankrupt.

Edited July 24 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

@Leo Gura  Again I don't tolerate factual errors. It's okay to admit that Musk took someone's else's vision and executed it to perfection.

It's the same story with Jobs and Wozniak. Does emphasising Wozniak takes away something from Jobs? I guess yeah. That's a balanced perspective.

Emphasizing Martin take away something from Musk too. At the same time Musk is also a genius. You have to be comfortable with that. You get so touchy when you don't get to frame things the way exactly you want it to perfection. Jeez.

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You created leftist noise in the thread about corruption and development, and now you do it again here.

I asked you simple questions for which you had no answer. 

It was a simple question, which I will ask again.

Was X country better or worse from Y country intervention?

I discussed historical examples for X and Y which are all noise to you.

You merely throw accusations and claims to authority. Cheap.

Edited July 24 by Bobby_2021

[zazen]

@Bobby_2021 Ideas are abundant, execution is scarce. You made a factual point about that, as did Leo about Musks ambition and work ethic. Many people can take a vision, take inspiration from one, or share with others in one. Very few have the will to see a vision through to fruition with all it entails.

Even on the corruption / development back and forth earlier in the thread - Leo was pointing out that corruption and underdevelopment existed before Western intervention, maybe what he didn't give enough attention to was that fact that this is only perpetuated or made worse by Western intervention.

Just as a example, I'v been in and out of Africa a lot in the past - its common place to bring a 'gift' when flying in as something to give airport security when they bother you or try tax you on something you are bringing in when they check your bags.  A lot of daily interactions are like this especially if doing business or getting stopped on the road.

Corruption is systemic and pervasive in developing countries, whilst in developed countries its just sophisticated - its that very sophistication though, which allows it to scale and have ripple affects far beyond its borders compared to developing countries forms of corruption which stays within their borders.

Edited July 24 by zazen

[Bobby_2021]

The most funny thing of all is people accusing me of being leftist/progressive while I am a right leaning individual in most of my takes.

I simply have to acknowledge correct things from either perspectives. 

Damn stop getting so triggered. I am not a leftist.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Again I don't tolerate factual errors. It's okay to admit that Musk took someone's else's vision and executed it to perfection.

There is no error.

You just have a narrow notion of vision. Vision is not limited to literally founding a company. Vision comes into play all throughout the operation of a company.

Musk didn't just execute someone else's vision. He had his own vision.

All this noise you created just to obscure the fundamental point that Musk is a visionary. You focus on the pointless minutia while missing the profound points. Musk has a trillion dollar vision which you are too blind to see. Which is why Musk is the world's richest asshole and you are not.

Edited July 24 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no error.

You have a narrow notion of vision. Vision is not limited to literally founding a company. Vision comes into play all throughout the operation of a company.

Ironically, you lack vision about vision.

Musk didn't just execute someone else's vision. He has his own vision.

All this noise you created just to obscure the fundamental point that Musk is a visionary. You focus on the pointless minutia while missing the profound points.

It takes more vision to light a spark from scratch than for that scratch to become a wildfire. 

Musk had a vision. But the foundation was already set for him, more or less.

Growing a company from scratch needs more vision than coming in between and taking it over.

If Musk wants credit for Vision, he should have founded a company rather than playing corporate politics to oust their visionary founder. 

Are you going to say that Zuckerberg is a visionary for buying up WhatsApp and Instagram when they were making losses and getting it to be billions in profit later lmao?

Consider that my noise in this thread which is far below your alien consciousness.

I don't want to deal with your triggered response. The only self deception I did was to think that you were open minded and open to considering multiple perspectives and only because you marketed yourself as such. You are no different than Musk lol.

[Bobby_2021]

39 minutes ago, zazen said:

Even on the corruption / development back and forth earlier in the thread - Leo was pointing out that corruption and underdevelopment existed before Western intervention, maybe what he didn't give enough attention to was that fact that this is only perpetuated or made worse by Western intervention.

"Corruption existed before western intervention".

Wow what a brilliant observation. I didn't see it coming at all.

What I mean is that such societies have corruption & underdevelopment in them **exclusively by western intervention**.

I proved it with n number of examples, which you might perceive as noise when you are overflowing with alien consciousness. 

I am not backing down to titillate his Ego. Both of us cannot be right at the same time. 

[integral]

@Bobby_2021 musk gambled all his money on the success of those companies, he was ready to go down with the ship and had countless sleepless nights.

[Vibes]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

As soon as you have children you have a massive attachment, and survival has you by the balls 10x harder. The biases of your mind skyrocket because you must put your kid's survival above everything else.

I saw that with my sister, after she got children she became way less adventurous and started fearing many things that she didn't before having the kid.

[zazen]

36 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

"Corruption existed before western intervention".

Wow what a brilliant observation. I didn't see it coming at all.

What I mean is that such societies have corruption & underdevelopment in them **exclusively by western intervention**.

I proved it with n number of examples, which you might perceive as noise when you are overflowing with alien consciousness. 

I am not backing down to titillate his Ego. Both of us cannot be right at the same time. 

From your other posts in other threads you definitely aren’t a leftist.

I got you, so you’re saying corruption came about exclusively due to Western intervention. Depending on the definition of corruption, you can both be right in different ways.

If we take corruption at its most basic to mean the abuse of power for private gain - that is a universal thing. If we take it to mean the abuse of power for private gain at a industrial scale then yes that could easily be at the hands of the West, simply because they have the ability and leverage to cause such outcomes.

What they call intervention is actually disruption, and disruption causes all kinds of chaos which makes corruption rife. Unstable environment cause stable profits for corrupt hands - and the US’s biggest industry being arms means that peace is bad for a return on that investment. They literally secure stable profits and power through instability.

Edited July 24 by zazen

[Space]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It takes more vision to light a spark from scratch than for that scratch to become a wildfire. 

Musk had a vision. But the foundation was already set for him, more or less.

Growing a company from scratch needs more vision than coming in between and taking it over.

If Musk wants credit for Vision, he should have founded a company rather than playing corporate politics to oust their visionary founder. 

Are you going to say that Zuckerberg is a visionary for buying up WhatsApp and Instagram when they were making losses and getting it to be billions in profit later lmao?

Consider that my noise in this thread which is far below your alien consciousness.

Musk isn't perfect, but as Leo said, you are blinded by bias.

Tesla was basically nothing when Musk bought the company. I believe they had a couple of patents and that was about it. Barely a drivable car and a couple of employees. 

The success of the first Roadster was created under Musk's management and direction. That simply would not have existed without Musk. The Roadster was the catalyst for everything we see today.

The foundation was already set for him?  What foundation lmao? 

Whatsapp and Instagram were well established companies with hundreds of employees and fully working products when Facebook purchased them. You know its a stupid comparison. 

Musk can also be a very toxic, self-centred leader with somewhat dangerous conservative policies. This is also true.

Quote

I don't want to deal with your triggered response. The only self deception I did was to think that you were open minded and open to considering multiple perspectives and only because you marketed yourself as such. You are no different than Musk lol.

'Consider multiple perspectives' doesn't mean agreeing with you or allowing you to spew bias without push back. We've considered it. And we've considered it deeply biased and a misguided interpretation of the events.

Edited July 24 by Space

[Bobby_2021]

@Space WhatsApp and Instagram were making losses in hundreds of millions or close to a billion, even after it was acquired. It was bleeding money before the acquisition too to the point of unsustainability. It had to be acquired by FB to reach where it is today. 

The issue you are raising about Musk is not what we were talking about. He was emphasizing vision while I was saying that he was better at management & execution. Look back at earlier conversations. Your points are agreeing with mine that Musk is a better manager that could induce some order to a badly managed company.

1 hour ago, Space said:

Consider multiple perspectives' doesn't mean agreeing with you or allowing you to spew bias without push back. We've considered it. And we've considered it deeply biased and a misguided interpretation of the events

Is this a court order? 

Edited July 24 by Bobby_2021

[Space]

12 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

WhatsApp and Instagram were making losses in hundreds of millions or close to a billion, even after it was acquired. It was bleeding money before the acquisition too to the point of unsustainability. It had to be acquired by FB to reach where it is today. 

The issue you are raising about Musk is not what we were talking about. He was emphasizing vision while I was saying that he was better at management & execution. Look back at earlier conversations. Your points are agreeing with mine that Musk is a better manager that could induce some order to a badly managed company.

Is this a court order? 

Good that we can agree on something then!

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

That doesn't take away what he did with it. He managed the company brilliantly. But it was not his idea. It was someone else's idea which he executed brilliantly.

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Again I don't tolerate factual errors. It's okay to admit that Musk took someone's else's vision and executed it to perfection.

I don't think your perspective on Musk's vision are accurate or true. Although it seems you've argued your point enough already so I shall leave it at that.

[Bobby_2021]

@Space Based on my conversations is there something I could have done better?

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Without Musk Tesla would be bankrupt.

They/them are very successful 

[hoodrow trillson]

1 hour ago, Space said:

Good that we can agree on something then!

I don't think your perspective on Musk's vision are accurate or true. Although it seems you've argued your point enough already so I shall leave it at that.

I think they’re true.  Elon is a con man and he promises things that never come to fruition (ie: vaporware) using government funds.

He’s a wannabe Steve Jobs.  Steve Jobs was an actual visionary and genius.  Elon is a fragmented cheap emulation.

It’s a shame that so many of you have totally bought into Elon’s PR and marketing.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  🤷‍♂️ 

[Bobby_2021]

@hoodrow trillson Steve was pretty overrated. He was a genius marketer and had command over people. Wozniak is who powered him from behind. Steve and Elon are pretty similar in that regard.

[hoodrow trillson]

3 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@hoodrow trillson Steve was pretty overrated. He was a genius marketer and had command over people. Wozniak is who powered him from behind. Steve and Elon are pretty similar in that regard.

Steve was not a conman is my point lol

[Bobby_2021]

4 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Steve was not a conman is my point lol

At the end of the day results matter. Is he a con man if he delivered results?

[hoodrow trillson]

7 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

At the end of the day results matter. Is he a con man if he delivered results?

Actually, you know what?

Musk is a visionary and did make Tesla the way it is today from his vision and work ethic.

 

Edited July 24 by hoodrow trillson