Shots Fired At Trump on Stage, At Rally..

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura If he tried to abolish democracy, it would definitely end in a civil war. Democracy is the most important value in politics for Americans. Could he achieve something as grandiose as that?

[LSD-Rumi]

Average Americans are so politically Passive that it is disgusting. Maybe they need a slab on the face to wake up. Four new years of Trump and more abolished liberties may do that. Fire makes wiser people than feathers.

[Merkabah Star]

4 hours ago, Archie said:

I'm honestly thinking about leaving this country, especially if trump gets elected. 

Lol

 

[Merkabah Star]

3 hours ago, kguirnela said:

Don't forget he also took a lot of high classified documents & never returned them

 

Big deal, it’s nothing new. 

Quote

Every U.S. presidential administration since the 1980s has mishandled classified documents, according to testimony from a National Archives and Records Administration official released Wednesday—after the discovery of classified documents at the homes of President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump led to two federal probes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/05/17/not-just-trump-and-biden-every-administration-since-reagan-mishandled-classified-records-national-archives-finds/

 

Edited July 17 by Merkabah Star

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Leo Gura If he tried to abolish democracy, it would definitely end in a civil war. Democracy is the most important value in politics for Americans. Could he achieve something as grandiose as that?

I didn't think it was a real possibility until I saw Project 2025.

Now it is a real possibility. Not 100%, but something like 20-30% chance, which is deeply concerning if you think about it seriously.

The biggest problem here is that most Americans are not taking it seriously, they regard Trump as a clown who is no worse than Biden. This kind of attitude is a recipe for disaster. People are really under-informed and aren't thinking straight. This is a very dangerous situation. All the fundamentals are bad. America has finally become so corrupt and so morally debased by capitalism that bad things must happen. Nobody is being an adult and taking serious responsibilty over the fundamentals. People are acting like egotistical ignorant children. That cannot end well.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

The American populace was quite used to being the beneficiary of capitalism and they have grown to enjoy it for far too long that they have never thought it would even come to bite them back in the ass. 

All the liberalism was a mask for capitalism which works as long as you have a pipeline of labor, money and resources streamed to the west from third world. Aka neo liberalism, distinct from wokeism. Ukraine was supposed to be the next cash cow in the line.

I do not think wokeism would have thrived in the absence of siphoning the wealth from the rest of the world into the west which via covert and overt means, that results in the woke bubble, which is a second order effect of crony capitalism. They are the beneficiaries of capitalism while living in total disconnect with the damages of capitalism. 

Hence capitalism thrived in the west all throughout the late 20th century. This is the best life anyone could have asked for, relatively speaking. Boomers had the time of their life while America went on a bombing spree across the entire world.

Boomers had the best life. Zoomers and millennials are going to pay up for it.  Now it's payback time for capitalism.

[Scholar]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop watching Destiny and other social media trash and actually read some news articles by serious people about serious things.

 

Destiny is pretty much the only big political pundit who actually talks about this very issue. If he had listened to Destiny, he'd know about it, because that's one of the reasons why Destiny is going so insane. He assumed that the US institutions were strong and that Trump would be taken accountable. But then he was literally declard immune from criminal persecuting by the supreme court.

That's why he is on this whole sharade right now, the fact that the right basically supports someone who wanted to insurrect the government.

 

It's actually mindblowing how little this is reported on by political pundits and the news in general. Almost nobody in your country is aware of what happened.

Edited July 17 by Scholar

[OBEler]

It is a miracle that he survived. That's why I and many could not believe this was happening at the beginning.

It's far too unrealistic for reality to happen. But it happened. 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Gosh, for you guys who live in America. How to live with this sort of BS? 

 

[Hatfort]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

It is a miracle that he survived. That's why I and many could not believe this was happening at the beginning.

It's far too unrealistic for reality to happen. But it happened. 

 

True, the move he made at that precise moment saved his life. If the shooter had shot one second earlier, he would be dead. I think he is in shock yet.

[DocWatts]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't think it was a real possibility until I saw Project 2025.

Now it is a real possibility. Not 100%, but something like 20-30% chance, which is deeply concerning if you think about it seriously.

The biggest problem here is that most Americans are not taking it seriously, they regard Trump as a clown who is no worse than Biden. This kind of attitude is a recipe for disaster. People are really under-informed and aren't thinking straight. This is a very dangerous situation. All the fundamentals are bad. America has finally become so corrupt and so morally debased by capitalism that bad things must happen. Nobody is being an adult and taking serious responsibilty over the fundamentals. People are acting like egotistical ignorant children. That cannot end well.

Add to that that the current Supreme Court is the most corrupt one in United States history, and not just Trump but the entirety of the Republican Party has completely abandoned democratic norms, and further democratic backsliding is a near certainty by this point. 

The question at this point is how much of our democracy we'll be able to salvage from all this.

Edited July 17 by DocWatts

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Add to that that the current Supreme Court is the most corrupt one in United States history, and not just Trump but the entirety of the Republican Party has completely abandoned democratic norms, and further democratic backsliding is a near certainty by this point. 

The question at this point is how much of our democracy we'll be able to salvage from all this.

Yes, the corruption of the courts is really bad and it will get 5x worse if Trump is reelected.

It is insanity that Americans are sitting by and are too ignorant to understand what is happening and just letting the courts get corrupted.

The corruption of the courts alone is enough to make Trump a pernicious danger. But that is just one of a dozen of his domains of corruption.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Scholar said:

He assumed that the US institutions were strong and that Trump would be taken accountable. But then he was literally declard immune from criminal persecuting by the supreme court.

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

The irony of republicans saying the government is corrupt for years and years and then they are the driver of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't even know how you guys will return to a norm from this.

[nerdspeak]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

I don't like Trump but I think expanding presidential immunity back to what it was like before Nixon -- maybe not this far -- is proper to avoid nonsense lawfare, like what happened to the Clintons and even certain aspects of what happened to Trump. They should have gone after him for Jan 6 and election interference, not this Stormy Daniels nonsense. . 

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes everyday people commit everyday get turned into big deals. 

Members of congress have much wider immunity than the president. Explicit constitutional legislative immunity (the president has no such explict immunity in the constituion), and they can only be arrested during scope of their duties for treason -- the president has no such arrest immunity. 

• Legislative immunity - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legislative_immunity
• Arrest privilege - https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/21-compensation-and-immunities-of-members.html

Given the extent of the lawfare used by both parties, expanding the scope of presidential immunity to some extent makes sense, although of course it should not be absolute. 

Edited July 17 by nerdspeak

[Jehovah increases]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

It is a miracle that he survived. That's why I and many could not believe this was happening at the beginning.

It's far too unrealistic for reality to happen. But it happened. 

 

One would have to ask what sort of a God would have let him be President in the first place and then let him back in again. I always laugh that Trump wanted to build a wall to stop the Mexicans from crossing the border which will never work yes subterfuge comes to mind he had immigrants working for him from Mexico. I have a lot of respect and Love for Mexico.        And even funnier he speaks ill about China and all of his sheep even himself are wearing merch saying make America great again and it is all made in China. The irony of it all.  I asked Chat Pig and it said it was a true miracle. 

Edited July 17 by Jehovah increases

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

I don't like Trump but I think expanding presidential immunity back to what it was like before Nixon -- maybe not this far -- is proper to avoid nonsense lawfare, like what happened to the Clintons and even certain aspects of what happened to Trump. They should have gone after him for Jan 6 and election interference, not this Stormy Daniels nonsense. . 

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes everyday people commit everyday get turned into big deals. 

Members of congress have much wider immunity than the president. Explicit constitutional legislative immunity (the president has no such explict immunity in the constituion), and they can only be arrested during scope of their duties for treason -- the president has no such arrest immunity. 

• Legislative immunity - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legislative_immunity
• Arrest privilege - https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/21-compensation-and-immunities-of-members.html

Given the extent of the lawfare used by both parties, expanding the scope of presidential immunity to some extent makes sense, although of course it should not be absolute. 

The way it was has worked and was reasonable. The reason why there was "lawfare" is because Trump is an insanely corrupt president. The president already had immunity from civil persecution. That is more than sufficient.

 

None of this was a problem at all before Trump started literally trying to overtake the government.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes

Presidents already had that level of immunity. It was a non-isssue. No President had been charged with a minor crime while in office.

The real danger is giving the President blanket immunity, especially Trump. That is insane and antithetical to the Consitutional intent of the founders.

That this is even being debated is insane. You are debating for corruption. If the President steals a bag of potato chips from Walmart he should be put in prison. That is what's right. If your president cannot clear that bar of conduct, tough shit.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura why are you not impressed about this miracle (positive or negative).

Let politics behind for a moment. Almost paranormal what happened. 

Edited July 17 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura why are you not impressed about this miracle (positive or negative).

Life plays out like that all the time.

There was no miracle and no conspriacy. Just life.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura