Shots Fired At Trump on Stage, At Rally..

[DocWatts]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't think it was a real possibility until I saw Project 2025.

Now it is a real possibility. Not 100%, but something like 20-30% chance, which is deeply concerning if you think about it seriously.

The biggest problem here is that most Americans are not taking it seriously, they regard Trump as a clown who is no worse than Biden. This kind of attitude is a recipe for disaster. People are really under-informed and aren't thinking straight. This is a very dangerous situation. All the fundamentals are bad. America has finally become so corrupt and so morally debased by capitalism that bad things must happen. Nobody is being an adult and taking serious responsibilty over the fundamentals. People are acting like egotistical ignorant children. That cannot end well.

Add to that that the current Supreme Court is the most corrupt one in United States history, and not just Trump but the entirety of the Republican Party has completely abandoned democratic norms, and further democratic backsliding is a near certainty by this point. 

The question at this point is how much of our democracy we'll be able to salvage from all this.

Edited July 17, 2024 by DocWatts

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Add to that that the current Supreme Court is the most corrupt one in United States history, and not just Trump but the entirety of the Republican Party has completely abandoned democratic norms, and further democratic backsliding is a near certainty by this point. 

The question at this point is how much of our democracy we'll be able to salvage from all this.

Yes, the corruption of the courts is really bad and it will get 5x worse if Trump is reelected.

It is insanity that Americans are sitting by and are too ignorant to understand what is happening and just letting the courts get corrupted.

The corruption of the courts alone is enough to make Trump a pernicious danger. But that is just one of a dozen of his domains of corruption.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Scholar said:

He assumed that the US institutions were strong and that Trump would be taken accountable. But then he was literally declard immune from criminal persecuting by the supreme court.

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

The irony of republicans saying the government is corrupt for years and years and then they are the driver of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't even know how you guys will return to a norm from this.

[nerdspeak]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I also assumed that.

The court system really let us down. They were supposed to check Trump's bullshit, instead they rubber-stamped it and gave Trump cart blanche to rape democracy.

All 3 branches of government have become utterly corrupt: the presidency, Congress, and now the courts.

I don't like Trump but I think expanding presidential immunity back to what it was like before Nixon -- maybe not this far -- is proper to avoid nonsense lawfare, like what happened to the Clintons and even certain aspects of what happened to Trump. They should have gone after him for Jan 6 and election interference, not this Stormy Daniels nonsense. . 

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes everyday people commit everyday get turned into big deals. 

Members of congress have much wider immunity than the president. Explicit constitutional legislative immunity (the president has no such explict immunity in the constituion), and they can only be arrested during scope of their duties for treason -- the president has no such arrest immunity. 

• Legislative immunity - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legislative_immunity
• Arrest privilege - https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/21-compensation-and-immunities-of-members.html

Given the extent of the lawfare used by both parties, expanding the scope of presidential immunity to some extent makes sense, although of course it should not be absolute. 

Edited July 17, 2024 by nerdspeak

[Jehovah increases]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

It is a miracle that he survived. That's why I and many could not believe this was happening at the beginning.

It's far too unrealistic for reality to happen. But it happened. 

 

One would have to ask what sort of a God would have let him be President in the first place and then let him back in again. I always laugh that Trump wanted to build a wall to stop the Mexicans from crossing the border which will never work yes subterfuge comes to mind he had immigrants working for him from Mexico. I have a lot of respect and Love for Mexico.        And even funnier he speaks ill about China and all of his sheep even himself are wearing merch saying make America great again and it is all made in China. The irony of it all.  I asked Chat Pig and it said it was a true miracle. 

Edited July 17, 2024 by Jehovah increases

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

I don't like Trump but I think expanding presidential immunity back to what it was like before Nixon -- maybe not this far -- is proper to avoid nonsense lawfare, like what happened to the Clintons and even certain aspects of what happened to Trump. They should have gone after him for Jan 6 and election interference, not this Stormy Daniels nonsense. . 

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes everyday people commit everyday get turned into big deals. 

Members of congress have much wider immunity than the president. Explicit constitutional legislative immunity (the president has no such explict immunity in the constituion), and they can only be arrested during scope of their duties for treason -- the president has no such arrest immunity. 

• Legislative immunity - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legislative_immunity
• Arrest privilege - https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/21-compensation-and-immunities-of-members.html

Given the extent of the lawfare used by both parties, expanding the scope of presidential immunity to some extent makes sense, although of course it should not be absolute. 

The way it was has worked and was reasonable. The reason why there was "lawfare" is because Trump is an insanely corrupt president. The president already had immunity from civil persecution. That is more than sufficient.

 

None of this was a problem at all before Trump started literally trying to overtake the government.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Political leaders need some immunity from prosecution because by going into public life they become much bigger targets for prosecutors, and minor crimes

Presidents already had that level of immunity. It was a non-isssue. No President had been charged with a minor crime while in office.

The real danger is giving the President blanket immunity, especially Trump. That is insane and antithetical to the Consitutional intent of the founders.

That this is even being debated is insane. You are debating for corruption. If the President steals a bag of potato chips from Walmart he should be put in prison. That is what's right. If your president cannot clear that bar of conduct, tough shit.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura why are you not impressed about this miracle (positive or negative).

Let politics behind for a moment. Almost paranormal what happened. 

Edited July 17, 2024 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura why are you not impressed about this miracle (positive or negative).

Life plays out like that all the time.

There was no miracle and no conspriacy. Just life.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Life plays out like that all the time.

There was no miracle and no conspriacy. Just life.

Grounded way to see from that perspective.

[numbersinarow]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

No. Most people have weak will to power, which is why they are nobodies.

So we've cleared up that others have the will to power too.

But what exactly are you saying is stronger within the enormously rich and egotistical person? Because the technical definition of "will to power" doesn't support the idea that some are stronger/more successful because that factor is stronger in them. (Wikipedia has it right). Other definitions are almost impossible to assume when someone hears the term.

[numbersinarow]

The evidence of the incompetence of the secret service makes me think there's at least a 50% chance of this being staged. Plus the shooter missing seems off even despite being easily possible.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

But what exactly are you saying is stronger within the enormously rich and egotistical person?

What's stronger is ego, ambition, and the drive to impose one's ego on the world.

This is the key thing that distinguishes rich and powerful people from everyone else. They have insane levels of ambition which 99% of humans do not have. Also insane levels of entitlement. This comes naturally with narcissism and ego.

Stop reading Wikipedia and think for yourself about human behavior.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Vibes]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

It is a miracle that he survived. That's why I and many could not believe this was happening at the beginning.

It's far too unrealistic for reality to happen. But it happened. 

 

That is creepy. I guess God wants things to get worst before it can get better…

But that is too short of a vision, we could say that about every little detail that has ever happened.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Vibes

[Gennadiy1981]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's stronger is ego, ambition, and the drive to impose one's ego on the world.

This is the key thing that distinguishes rich and powerful people from everyone else. They have insane levels of ambition which 99% of humans do not have. Also insane levels of entitlement. This comes naturally with narcissism and ego.

Stop reading Wikipedia and think for yourself about human behavior.

Hey Leo, not suire if you saw my post, I really think you are panicking more than usual. The way you speak as if the end of America is approaching and if Trump wins it will be the end. First of all there is a lot of empty talks even from media, like there was this talk that he will not leave the office, that he would prolong his stay, but none of it happened, when his time ended he sat on a chopper and left. Honestly there is so much media inflammation that scare the public but we with high consciousness should brush these silly things off.

I cannot imagine how one person can become a dictator in such a high country that has so many branches of government. It clearly shows that you fell into scare tactics that the media propagates. I know that you are a very serious person and I can see based on your text that you are panicking and not as a joke but you are serious about it. Why do you allow yourself to be inhabited with just news outlets that need to sell news to make controversies so they make money. Honestly, most of the stuff is foolish and totally not achievable. I see you are being sucked into it big time.

You give so much lectures on how not to fall into conspiracy trap, but you are falling there yourself, I mean most of the left wing media and so is the right wing media, are playing scare tactics that whoever will be elected will chnage America. 

[DocWatts]

18 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Hey Leo, not suire if you saw my post, I really think you are panicking more than usual. The way you speak as if the end of America is approaching and if Trump wins it will be the end. First of all there is a lot of empty talks even from media, like there was this talk that he will not leave the office, that he would prolong his stay, but none of it happened, when his time ended he sat on a chopper and left. Honestly there is so much media inflammation that scare the public but we with high consciousness should brush these silly things off.

Leo, myself, and others who are sounding the alarm bells about Project 2025 and a second Trump presidency are treating current events with a level of seriousness that's completely appropriate, given the situation.

America is on the cusp of losing its democracy, with the potential to backslide into the type of authoritarian regime that people have historically immigrated to the United States to escape.

Stop treating this as an abstraction. It's happening, it's real, and it will ruin many lives if it comes to fruition.

Edited July 17, 2024 by DocWatts

[aurum]

1 hour ago, numbersinarow said:

The evidence of the incompetence of the secret service makes me think there's at least a 50% chance of this being staged. Plus the shooter missing seems off even despite being easily possible.

That is a conspiracy. Please be mindful of the standards for this forum.

[Gennadiy1981]

@DocWatts I would politely disagree with you. There is a fear mongering from media on both sides. I remember when Obama was running the conservative media scared people that he will make America like a third world country and etc, but none of it happened. And lets be honest, during the 4 years of Trump, if you reside in USA and I assume you do, did your personal life dramatically changed? I would bet it stayed the same, indeed all presidents are just nominal.

As far as project 2025, first there is a lot of misinformation on it, second items that are in the charter most are nonsensical, they will never ban same sex relationships, but third, some points are good, like eliminating FDA, as most regulatory agencies are really covering the manufacturers and not looking for consumers interest. FDA cares more for pharmaceutical interest than ours and so does EPA and FCC, just for your info, so those agencies really need to be cleansed. The rest is just fear porn.

I really thought you guys are higher conscientiousness than this, but you guys have the same fear as conservatives did before Obama.

[Yimpa]

One time I had a male therapist gaslight me about how the court’s decision to overturn Roe v Wade was not a big deal, and that me being upset about it was unwarranted. 

Humans can be really unintelligent and unkind, even the ones who are well educated and privileged.