Shots Fired At Trump on Stage, At Rally..

[josemar]

3 minutes ago, Joshe said:

@Gennadiy1981 Maybe this analogy can bring you some clarity:

Imagine if the Devil himself rose from the depths of hell and started doing some good in the world and he won over the hearts and minds of half the population and those people were trying to tell the other half of the population that the Devil really isn't that bad and they should give him credit where credit is due. 

If you can see why, in this analogy, it would be absurd to discuss the virtues of the Devil, then you can understand why people like Leo only discuss Trump's devilry, but if you can't see it, then you just can't understand it. 

ONLY THOSE WHO DO NOT SEE THE ACTUAL REALITY WOULD DISCUSS THE VIRTUES OF DEVILRY. 

It's not a matter of bias so much as it is a matter of epistemic failure on the part of the population that extols the virtues of evil, and that failure itself is the very mechanism that allows for Trump to act out his devilry on the world stage, to the detriment of many. 

The masses cannot discern truth from falsehood. If they could, they'd see the devil and condemn it, but they can't, so the devil resides in their midst and they call it good. 

To be "biased towards that which is good" is something you want to be. It's a good thing! 

Your so-called 'analogy' is too blatant to be useful. There's no Devil as an entity/being, except in the minds of religious fanatics.

People's actions determines their devilry or sainthood and everything in between. If your "Devil" only did good deeds, helped the poor, ended world hunger, and never performed any bad actions, in what way is that "the  Devil", other than in the label you gave it?

May as well call it "the Pizza", for the relevance it has.

[Joshe]

15 minutes ago, questionreality said:

I find Owen's take to be a lot more deep, balanced and objective than yours on this one. I doubt that you watched his videos, because in them he actually does state that Trump has all hallmarks of NPD and he is no saint, etc.

Owen has to say things like that to make it appear that he's balanced and mature. Unfortunately, this ridiculous tactic works on many people.

Many Trump sympathizers say shit like "Yeah, he's a narcissist and a baby" and then shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like "Trump could have retired and lived out his life in luxury but he didn't because he's got a big heart". 

What is it with people thinking good and evil should be "balanced"? They think it's some sign of higher mind or deeper level of maturity if someone isn't biased AT ALL towards anything. Like Owen's take is superior because he's in the middle?

The issue is people cannot discern truth from falsehood. If you fail to recognize devilry, you will fail to condemn it. 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Joshe

[DocWatts]

The idea that factual truth and malignant disinformation (ie, Trump's Big Lie that he won the 2020 election) deserve equal hearing in the name of 'balance' is destroying American democracy.

Responsible non-partisan journalism requires fact checking. Not just dropping misinformation alongside truths with zero context on which is which.

Epistemologically, I do find it interesting how the far-right have ironically appropriated the most pernicious aspects of postmodern skepticism towards Truth to push their bullshit.

Edited July 15, 2024 by DocWatts

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

2 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

They hate Trump on that show. A lot of people have softened to Trump tho. 

   Don't like that YT guy. Lame and panders too much, don't suggest watching a lot from him.

[Rafael Thundercat]

5 minutes ago, josemar said:

Your so-called 'analogy' is too blatant to be useful. There's no Devil as an entity/being, except in the minds of religious fanatics.

People's actions determines their devilry or sainthood and everything in between. If your "Devil" only did good deeds, helped the poor, ended world hunger, and never performed any bad actions, in what way is that "the  Devil", other than in the label you gave it?

May as well call it "the Pizza", for the relevance it has.

A devil is also a being that cant undestrand the nuances of reality and go on acusing people of being blatant when they never said the devil is a sort of physical being. The devil loves to subvert and distor what people say and loves to take things out of context. And overall the devil have a hard time with text interpretation. 

[Joshe]

12 minutes ago, josemar said:

There's no Devil as an entity/being, except in the minds of religious fanatics.

People's actions determines their devilry or sainthood and everything in between. If your "Devil" only did good deeds, helped the poor, ended world hunger, and never performed any bad actions, in what way is that "the  Devil", other than in the label you gave it?

@josemar

When you say something like, if the devil only does good deeds, you reveal that you do not understand. The devil is inherently incapable of goodwill and good intentions. That's the point. That is why you would not call him virtuous for any amount of good he does. 

Edit: And of course, I thought it went without saying there is no actual devil entity being with horns.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Joshe

[questionreality]

13 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Owen has to say things like that to make it appear that he's balanced and mature. Unfortunately, this ridiculous tactic works on many people.

Many Trump sympathizers say shit like "Yeah, he's a narcissist and a baby" and then shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like "Trump could have retired and lived out his life in luxury but he didn't because he's got a big heart". 

What is it with people thinking good and evil should be "balanced"? They think it's some sign of higher mind or deeper level of maturity if someone isn't equally biased towards good as they are biased towards evil. Like Owen's take is superior because he's in the middle?

The issue is people cannot discern truth from falsehood. If you fail to recognize devilry, you will fail to condemn it. 

As Leo has taught you, the notions of good and evil are very relative. Some of those that hate Biden also view him as evil, you see? I doubt you actually watched Owen's videos, because there he goes quite deep on the culture war and individualism vs collectivism and how it's related to what has happened over the last years or so.

Instead of parroting Leo as you did with the last sentence, actually try to view things objectively without attachment. It's very easy to place labels of "good", "evil", etc, but actual critical thinking requires a lot of energy. 

What I love about Owen, is that he as a teacher and also in these videos states that he doesn't care weather you are team red/blue hate/love trump, etc. He sees balance in both collectivism, individualism and has friends that are both on the left and the right.

If you cannot find at least few good things in any individual (not just Trump, Biden, etc), it means you are clearly biased and are probably brainwashed if it comes to politics. This applies to both sides.

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by questionreality

[Danioover9000]

@Joshe

13 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Owen has to say things like that to make it appear that he's balanced and mature. Unfortunately, this ridiculous tactic works on many people.

Many Trump sympathizers say shit like "Yeah, he's a narcissist and a baby" and then shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like "Trump could have retired and lived out his life in luxury but he didn't because he's got a big heart". 

What is it with people thinking good and evil should be "balanced"? They think it's some sign of higher mind or deeper level of maturity if someone isn't biased AT ALL towards anything. Like Owen's take is superior because he's in the middle?

The issue is people cannot discern truth from falsehood. If you fail to recognize devilry, you will fail to condemn it. 

   It's funny because most Trump supporters hates the center or moderates, but they then assume a moderate position when excusing Trump.😂

[Danioover9000]

   Since we're talking about Destiny, this video shows how aggressively he debates:

 

[Davino]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Take a trip to Russia or China and find out for yourself.

I will 

[Danioover9000]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Since we're talking about Destiny, this video shows how aggressively he debates:

 

   And this is why I stress rhetoric over truth, because while Nick Fuentes is a neo Nazi, his rhetoric in this video out did Destiny, and Destiny looked like he embarrassed himself here. Especially looking at his phone while live debating, like you're supposed to be prepared and researched well enough the topics to then argue adequately without soliciting chat or online lawyers. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   And this is why I stress rhetoric over truth, because while Nick Fuentes is a neo Nazi, his rhetoric in this video out did Destiny, and Destiny looked like he embarrassed himself here. Especially looking at his phone while live debating, like you're supposed to be prepared and researched well enough the topics to then argue adequately without soliciting chat or online lawyers. 

For me is weird when guys use sunglasses indoors. And goshh this guys are annoying. 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Rafael Thundercat

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

As Leo has taught you, the notions of good and evil are very relative. Some of those that hate Biden also view him as evil, you see?

I have learned a ton from Leo but I discovered these notions on my own in my early 20's. I'm now 38. 

@questionreality The idea of moral relativity is only good insofar as it contributes to yourself or the greater good. It's good to be able to not hate a devil and it's good to exercise impartiality. After you exhaust all that, you might come back to a place where you realize there are things that actually matter. Or, you can stay in the world of moral relativity where life itself has no inherent value. You're free to be equally biased towards life and death because it's all "relative".

It might be the case that you have uncritically clung to Leo's teachings of relativity.

 

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

Instead of parroting Leo as you did with the last sentence, actually try to view things objectively without attachment. It's very easy to place labels of "good", "evil", etc, but actual critical thinking requires a lot of energy. 

Not sure how I parroted Leo because this: "The issue is people cannot discern truth from falsehood. If you fail to recognize devilry, you will fail to condemn it.", is actually an idea I've been contemplating a few years now and the main teacher I picked it up from is David R. Hawkins. I don't recall Leo ever saying this but maybe he has.

 

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

If you cannot find at least few good things in any individual (not just Trump, Biden, etc), it means you are clearly biased and are probably brainwashed if it comes to politics. This applies to both sides.

I am biased. Biased towards Truth. Biased against falsehood. Biased against that which is detrimental to life. Absolutely. But to call this "brainwashed" is fallacious. This is probably one of those topics where we won't find any common ground, so let's table it for later, shall we? 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Joshe

[Joshe]

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Joshe

[Mel B]

 

[questionreality]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

I have learned a ton from Leo but I discovered these notions on my own in my early 20's. I'm now 38. 

@questionreality The idea of moral relativity is only good insofar as it contributes to yourself or the greater good. It's good to be able to not hate a devil and it's good to exercise impartiality. After you exhaust all that, you might come back to a place where you realize there are things that actually matter. Or, you can stay in the world of moral relativity where life itself has no inherent value. You're free to be equally biased towards life and death because it's all "relative".

It might be the case that you have uncritically clung to Leo's teachings of relativity.

 

Not sure how I parroted Leo because this: "The issue is people cannot discern truth from falsehood. If you fail to recognize devilry, you will fail to condemn it.", is actually an idea I've been contemplating a few years now and the main teacher I picked it up from is David R. Hawkins. I don't recall Leo ever saying this but maybe he has.

 

I am biased. Biased towards Truth. Biased against falsehood. Biased against that which is detrimental to life. Absolutely. But to call this "brainwashed" is fallacious. This is probably one of those topics where we won't find any common ground, so let's table it for later, shall we? 

You keep using the word "devil" as Leo does, and Leo also keeps saying that he is biased towards the truth, and you are saying you are not parroting him?

Trump has already been a president for 4 years. Why don't you mention the actual things that he did during his presidency that makes him a devil? I am talking about actual policies and actions - not some pseudo stuff. 

You are not the only one that thinks you are biased towards truth - there are many people who think that they do, but in actuality is that really the case?

If you (or anyone) that is not not able to find good things that Trump has done during his presidency (same as for Biden) means that you are brainwashed, is it that hard to understand?

 

[Yimpa]

The Devil is hot. Let’s cool down the temperature, folks. 

[Danioover9000]

@questionreality

28 minutes ago, questionreality said:

You keep using the word "devil" as Leo does, and Leo also keeps saying that he is biased towards the truth, and you are saying you are not parroting him?

Trump has already been a president for 4 years. Why don't you mention the actual things that he did during his presidency that makes him a devil? I am talking about actual policies and actions - not some pseudo stuff. 

You are not the only one that thinks you are biased towards truth - there are many people who think that they do, but in actuality is that really the case?

If you (or anyone) that is not not able to find good things that Trump has done during his presidency (same as for Biden) means that you are brainwashed, is it that hard to understand?

 

1. Just because a person uses a word another person also uses, is not justifiable claim that person A is parroting person B. If that's the case then I can claim you've been parroting me for using English words I was also using too. Just because words like 'devil' or 'devilry' are used, does not mean it's parroting as 100,000s to 1,000,000 of Christians or others do use those words.

2. Because @Joshe and @Leo Gura are biased against Trump, and attention is limited and finite resource. Yes in an ideal world we'd like for each person to list good and bad things about the person they're addressing, but in Trump's case they think they cannot play fence sitter or both side him,, that they have to take a moral absolutist stance against Trump. Some people like them proclaim they're moral relativists but in practice it's morally right for me and not for thee and what suits me and not you, basically speaking. For example the few goods I saw Trump did is that he did reform part of the prison system, made it more cheaper, and he also gave back to the black community and increased certain job opportunities in those communities. That's why some street or people from the ghetto do like Trump and what he did, albeit you can argue it's more rhetoric than policy but Trump did benefit them to some degree.

3. Just because those people failed to list some good things Trump did, and are displaying all kinds of hate towards him, that doesn't mean they're brainwashed into hating Trump. It just means they're biased against Trump, his Rhetoric, and recently because of Leo's blog posts and his takes on Trump in his videos, these people now feel they're more justified in hating Trump. But that doesn't mean they're brainwashed into the hate. Again, their energy, time, attention is limited, they got biases, and have to select for certain biases to be for or against, that's all. Why I am against this brainwashing angle is that Actualized is not a cult group, you can have your own thoughts, and you can come and go from this place. Saying these people are brainwashed implies they're a cult following trapped here, which isn't the case.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Danioover9000

[Paradoxed]

I expected an assassination attempt on Trump much sooner.

[josemar]

3 hours ago, Joshe said:

@josemar...The devil is inherently incapable of goodwill and good intentions. That's the point. That is why you would not call him virtuous for any amount of good he does. 

I'm not even an American, and feel sorry for the situation at the Southern border. Although I probably could vote in the elections... 🤔

Either one of these situations would make me vote for Trump, I simply don't care enough about the rest:

• Attitude towards crypto, especially bitcoin
• Biden's Open border policy
• Taxation... White House floated the idea some time ago of taxing unrealized profits!!!! This is outrageous.
• Biden obviously has dementia, so who's behind the teleprompter?