Vegan is an Identity Disorder

[integral]

58 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

it's to show the futility of this line of self-justification masked as a universal norm, it's just as bad when vegans do it to you (as I am sure many are fed up with already) watch:

Protecting things is part of you, protecting this planet, the creatures in it.

Yes you have accepted that your a protector which is part of the human experience and part of what you are.

 This has nothing to do with belief. I’m not forcing anyone to believe anything, i’m saying if you’re not aligned with every aspect of reality it can create disfunction.

How did you read what I read and not understand what it means to be a killer? If you accept killing is part of the human experience then it’s part of your identity.

We have a different definition of identity.

46 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

No. 

The escape is You and you only because is the Only thing that is not an identity. 

 

You just need a clear Awakening about what You are. Something that Unfortunately has not happened yet.

 

But dont lose faith It can not happen in this lifetime. 

I was being playful, the joke was the identity that was always there is the identity of God. Sovereignty.

Edited July 14 by integral

[BlueOak]

18 minutes ago, integral said:

Yes you have accepted that your a protector which is part of the human experience and part of what you are.

 This has nothing to do with belief. I’m not forcing anyone to believe anything, i’m saying if you’re not aligned with every aspect of reality it can create disfunction.

How did you read what I read and not understand what it means to be a killer? If you accept killing is part of the human experience then it’s part of your identity.

We have a different definition of identity.

I was being playful, the joke was the identity that was always there what is the identity of God. Sovereignty.

I am giving you an alternative way to describe the same topic and using it to justify another identity, so I can show you how futile or non-universal it is. 

We not only define identity differently, we define everything according to our environment, belief set, experiences, peer group, patterns, emotional processes, hopes, aspirations, etc etc etc. This is the point.

How can I read something and not process it the same way as you? Because identity is a perspective of infinity or god. This is the point! We are pieces of god having a conversation with ourselves from entirely different perspectives and identities. 

This is why, as people have tried in various ways to tell you the futility of trying to argue about identity as universal, or that others should accept your definitions as absolute. Not only do people define subjects differently, but all the associations, the meanings, the use of it, the importance of it. If you continue down this path you will keep unraveling your association with your identity (a point in/of/for infinity), and eventually, the hope is to realize what you are. 

I don't want to bias that in any way, sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's big, sometimes it's small, pieces, hints, direct realizations, sometimes weird, sometimes emotional you get the idea. Its infinity. You are looking at a small piece of it and saying that's what life is, because you are creating the definition and reacting to yourself.
 

Edited July 14 by BlueOak

[integral]

@BlueOak The loss of ego and ego death is to take everything in reality into yourself. 100% acceptance of reality.

Everyone’s identity is constantly changing and growing, what direction is it growing towards, what is it growing too?

identity is what you are accepting and what you are rejecting it is a little bubble you call yourself, you do not accept that you were a table = separation. my body and the table are separate things one is me the other is not. It’s a bundle of selfishness.

Reality and life is whatever’s is infront of your face at any moment, it can be excepted or it can be rejected.

When your identity dissolves it does not disappear what you’re doing is you’re expanding to take everything in. Identity is built by rejecting everything in front of you as not part of you. Growing up is when your identity takes more and more of reality into itself.

Do we agree?

he explains self at the eight minute mark.

[integral]

I’m shocked by the level of resistance I’m getting over very simple things. I think we need to break things down to one component at a time so people can respond just to that one thing and not conflated everything else and get lost.

An identity that is rejecting being gay is a dysfunctional way of being, it is a contracted state. This identity is less developed than other identities because it incorporates less of reality into itself. Gay is not accepted. 

Do we all agree. 🤦‍♀️
 

[BlueOak]

@integral

Reality is entirely defined and responded to in your head. If I say yes what does it matter? If I say no what does it matter? 

We can find common ground and do, but that has to account for this fundamental truth:

You live in a different reality to me and everyone else here. In your own mind. Everything you’ve told me, down to the language itself is going to hold different nuanced meanings, connections, importance, experiences etc between each of us.

*I’ll have a watch of the video later thank you, I am going to a hospital visit soon.

 

21 minutes ago, integral said:

I’m shocked by the level of resistance I’m getting over very simple things. I think we need to break things down to one component at a time so people can respond just to that one thing and not conflated everything else and get lost.

An identity that is rejecting being gay is a dysfunctional way of being, it is a contracted state. This identity is less developed than other identities because it incorporates less of reality into itself. Gay is not accepted. 

Do we all agree. 🤦‍♀️
 

Reality is incorporated into each of us. The entire reality is in our heads. There is no more or less reality. You might mean something like collective approval or recognition for the identity, this is where you confusing the two.

[integral]

@BlueOak OK so you don’t agree, please define identity for me from your perspective.

When you have time, good luck with the hospital! haha

[integral]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@integral The point of identity is that you can not be what you identify with LMAO.

Thats why is called an identity. Is relative. Is never You. 

Example; you mean when someone thinks they are the body when really they’re not, their consciousness?

but you are the body because the body is part of consciousness.

Anything you identify as is a part of the whole.

Identity is always you. 😂

Edited July 14 by integral

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, integral said:

@UnbornTao I didn’t know everyone was terrified of death. This is new to me. I fully faced death and I’m long past the point where I need to continue living.

Absolutely, if you're honest. What you faced was an interpretation of being "near" death--the potential for it. Notice this existed as a concept, because you're still alive. Just addressing its reality in your experience is hard to do.

Whatever you're identified with exists in contrast to whatever you're not.

Edited July 14 by UnbornTao

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, integral said:

 

I was being playful, the joke was the identity that was always there is the identity of God. Sovereignty.

And what I´m saying is God another identity.

Quote

identity of God. Sovereignty.

Best if you throw all the garbage you have learned.

 

Edited July 14 by Javfly33

[integral]

24 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And what I´m saying is God another identity.

Best if you throw all the garbage you have learned.

 

What identity means at God level is not what identity means at human level.

How would you know what I’m saying what it means when I say it?  Most spiritual conversations has no framework/language to communicate through, everyone picks their own style of communication and it all looks like Word salad to the other side. 

[Ramanujan]

vegans are murdering plants. vegans kill plants . plants are living beings too

[BlueOak]

6 hours ago, integral said:

@BlueOak OK so you don’t agree, please define identity for me from your perspective.

Let's start with the dictionary on identity, which is a collective structure:

The condition of being a certain person or thing.
The set of characteristics by which a person or thing is definitively recognizable or known.
The awareness that an individual or group has of being a distinct, persisting entity

If I were to expand this with my former understanding, it would be: What I consider as part of myself.
For me these days: It's a convenience in a void; that tends to be how I view identity, people use it so they can function day to day with a reference point.

For example, if I were to try to push in that direction again of becoming everything, or egoless, I would answer:

Yes a human can be everything talked about in this thread. It would be simple and true.

In your analogy here, you'd have to accept veganism, carnivores, fruitarians, people who don't eat, regular diets, vegetarians, and pescatarians.
Or killers and non-killers as equally part of existence and life.

Edited July 14 by BlueOak

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I think that eating meat and identifying with it isn’t wise at all. Considering the fact that our digestive system isn’t designed for eating meat, it takes long hours to digest, and during those hours, it’s rotting in the body. I don’t want to imagine how it affects the body in the long term. 

I think that many meat eaters are selfish and egocentric, believing that everything revolves around them and that they are the superior species. They act paranoically as if they are in some competition with animals for food in the jungles of Africa. This is a highly delusional perspective. They ignore the fact that they don’t have to eat animals for their survival. They are too lazy and selfish to even consider alternatives.

And the most annoying part is that they rationalize it to sound more like heroism. In reality, eating meat is the easiest thing to do because most humans do it out of ignorance and selfishness. They don’t want to think about the cost (ethical, environmental).
 

They have created this romanticized story in their minds about being the strongest animal, justifying eating meat as part of survival, without considering the fact that they never hunt their meat but buy it in air-conditioned supermarkets. Meanwhile, there are many alternatives which they have convinced themselves are not viable.

The idea that a vegan diet is unhealthy is a complete myth. People can live without meat, eggs, and milk and be completely healthy.

On 7/12/2024 at 8:41 PM, integral said:

 

My my. A little harsh don't ya think. Lol. Wouldn't want you to sit as judge on a PETA trial. You'll probably give the death penalty for eating a piece of barbequed chicken wing. Lol. I eat meat and I felt like an entitled piece of shit when i read this. I just wanted to go under my bed and never come back out and look at another goat again, not to mention my cat. Love you Lila.

[integral]

 

I used Claude 3 to generate these diagrams

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

Lol, I am sorry if this came off too harsh. It was pretty reactive of me, and I didn’t give it much thought. I definitely could have rephrased it better and been less general about meat eaters' motives because they vary between people.
My rant was intended for a specific group of people who talk about meat eating in the ways that I mentioned. 

Nothing personal, I don’t go around hating people because they eat meat. Most of the people I know eat meat and I don’t hate them (Yet lol. And if I do, this is not because they eat meat).
I sincerely love you, princess, and I'm sending a ‘Meow’ from the crazy woman (me) to your cat.

Lmao. You know we cool, girl. I didn't take it personally I was just making light of it. Even though I don't eat red meat but I eat, seafood and poultry. I know it's a matter of perspective and you're entitled to it. It's ok, maybe if you tasted my delicious curry chicken and red pea soup with turkey tail, you'll change your mind lol.

Peace, my lovely friend and speak your mind. You're entitled, just never heard you speak it so loudly.

[Alexop]

@integral I was a vegan for three years and I did serious sports and stuff. Had no problem, had perfect body mass etc. 

If somebody chooses to be a vegan and he/she does not suffer in any way because of it, what is the problem? 

If you eat vegan an hate it, always feeling hungry and stuff, or you eat tons of wheat and junk just to not eat meat and preach to others about how saint you are because you sacrifice yourself, then that ca be a problem.

[Thought Art]

To me idealogy is something I've learned to avoid.

Generally, I don't eat meat. But, Feel fine if I eat it or don't eat it as long as I am eating well.

[integral]

@Alexop This wasn’t a conversation about veganism but I’ll just quickly reply the issue with what you said is you could go a long time depleting your body of nutrients and then at the end of the journey you’ll be left with sickness and struggling to get back your health. Very common story.

Most people don’t have the genetics where they can sustain being a vegan for more than 10 years.

[Princess Arabia]

45 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I have delicious recipes too, with no meat, that even meat eaters can love.
And not because they resemble the taste of meat but because they are tasty on their own. 

Yes, no doubt. Strictly vegetarian meals can be very delicious. I sometimes even prepare food with no meat on occasion. I also love to watch vegetarian channels like this one. He's very good.

 

[BlueOak]

9 hours ago, integral said:

@Alexop This wasn’t a conversation about veganism but I’ll just quickly reply the issue with what you said is you could go a long time depleting your body of nutrients and then at the end of the journey you’ll be left with sickness and struggling to get back your health. Very common story.

Most people don’t have the genetics where they can sustain being a vegan for more than 10 years.

Most people don't have the ability to cook or buy a varied diet because they live off junk food or trash, and then end up 60 years old with Musculoskeletal pains or diseases they wouldn't have otherwise had. This is in part because they have to work 60 hours a week to spoon-feed millionaires their lifestyles, and so snack on trash; also these days because of being broke, and more difficulty sourcing food globally due to in supply chains problems from the global tensions, and scarcity from global warming. 

This is a very common outcome: people are getting less healthy not more, and the percentage of people who are vegan in the population is very low. I would like to see your data that shows vegans vs the general population in terms of health issues, that would be interesting.

Because 1) it won't exist. 2) The problems with diet are down to junk food speed eating and a detachment to food, exemplified by factory farming; which alongside demonstrating people's disconnect with the most important part of their physical existence, also creates meat of an inferior quality.

I know there are always people who need certain things and certain diets, but nutrients are found in vegetables and fruit in plentiful quantities. Specifically minerals/protein and vitamins respectively.

Edited July 15 by BlueOak