Vegan is an Identity Disorder

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Godhead said:

Humans aren't what they were 1000s of years ago. With your logic you can justify rape, theft, murder and whichever other depraved acts. Just eat meat and shut up about it. 

There is nothing inherently moral about any of these acts fundamentally. Morality is constructed. Thinking that eating meat is immoral is a luxury belief afforded to you by a historical level of privilege.

1 hour ago, Godhead said:

 On average vegans live longer and healthier lives than non-vegans.

How much of that is from simply cutting out junk food and being more health conscious? The longest living population on earth are Okinawans and they are not vegan.

[zurew]

If you are a cannibal, act on it, - if you don't act on it, you necessarily reject your identity.

If you are horny and no one wants to have sex with you, you have to forcefully have sex with other people, - if you don't act on it, you necessarily reject your identity.

Don't reject the  biology you were born with.

- Integral , probably.

Edited July 12 by zurew

[Godhead]

1 hour ago, integral said:

That’s not what’s happening you want a very specific answer and you want evidence to be present it to you the way you think evidence should be presented and you have a very specific epistemology of how you discern what is true or not. I have no interest in giving you evidence the way you want it or to convince you of anything. That’s why everything is abstract and metaphorical. This is not a debate or an argument it’s a meta-conversation.

how you come to truth is not how I come to truth what you consider evidence is not what I consider evidence so there’s no debate to be had here, we are in different paradigms.

Sounds to me like you are hiding behind some relativistic bs. You weren't applying the same benefit to vegans which you have no issue judging for having an "identity disorder". But once you get called out there are just "different paradigms". There is no consistency in what you are saying man. You are using spiritual mumbo jumbo to dilute basic logic if it is uncomfortable for you. How do you come to truth? Vibes?

 

1 hour ago, Basman said:

There is nothing inherently moral about any of these acts fundamentally. Morality is constructed. Thinking that eating meat is immoral is a luxury belief afforded to you by a historical level of privilege.

Yes? That's what I said. 

 

1 hour ago, Basman said:

How much of that is from simply cutting out junk food and being more health conscious? The longest living population on earth are Okinawans and they are not vegan.

As far as I know, quite a bit, vegans tend to be more wealthy, health conscious, educated etc etc.

My argument wasn't that being vegan is the healthiest possible diet, my argument was refuting the take that Vegans can't survive long term.

[integral]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

If you are a cannibal, act on it, - if you don't act on it, you necessarily reject your identity.

If you are horny and no one wants to have sex with you, you have to forcefully have sex with other people, - if you don't act on it, you necessarily reject your identity.

Don't reject the  biology you were born with.

- Integral , probably.

😂😂😂 this is a masterpiece.

If your identity comes into conflict with your biology then that’s dysmorphia.

if you’re a cannibal that does not come into conflict with your biology so that’s not dysmorphia.

if you’re horny and you want to have sex that is exactly what your biology wants but if you’re horny and you demonize sex then that’s body dysmorphia because your identity is in direct conflict with your biology.

Some identity is in conflict with its own biology and some identity is not. A man born in a woman’s body is in conflict with itself.

Vegan born in a crocodile body is in conflict with itself.

A rapist is in harmony with its body but in conflict with society. So that’s society dysmorphia lol

Sometimes body dysmorphia causes Identity to physically damage the body. And so this is why it’s inharmonious and out of alignment.

Some identity rejects the biology it was born with and is therefore out of alignment with reality, it is a fundamental rejection of reality and rejection of love.

When identity is in Harmony it loves reality exactly the way it is.

—-

A man trapped in a woman’s body can learn to love himself exactly the way he is and then Transcend dysmorphia.

Most vegan identity is fighting biology so it’s dysmorphia.

Edited July 12 by integral

[blankisomeone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAgnopNTY9w

[Princess Arabia]

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't call it a disorder. If that's the case, most people have an identity disorder because they're identified with what they're not existentially. It's just another form of identity, of which there are many. We're all disordered. We're destroyers and creators simultaneously. We have to destroy in order to create. 

Edited July 12 by Princess Arabia

[Godhead]

@Princess Arabia That's exactly what happened in psychology. At first they had the term identity disorder, then they renamed it to identity problem and then they dropped the idea entirely since it was so common to have some sort of misalignment in identity.

Edited July 12 by Godhead

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, integral said:

A human is a killer. That is the fundamental nature of a human that vegans cannot come to terms with.

A Vegan rejects what they are. They reject what they were born as. They reject the biology they were born with.

Veganism is a identity crisis in disguise.

It’s like a crocodile not being able to come to terms with the fact that they need to kill to survive.

It's also in the human identity to be able to follow a higher moral impulse and suspend our lower impulses. That's not dysmorphia; that's what we are. You might feel attracted to eating meat on a primal level, but you can also realize that you don't have to eat meat. This is what makes us so incredible. You might feel compelled to beat a rude person into a pulp, or molest some innocent woman, but you can realize you don't have to do that. You're exactly not a crocodile. You're a human.

Edited July 12 by Carl-Richard

[Basman]

Your technically still a killer as a vegan because plants are living organisms.

It is merely a life style choice to be vegan. The problem is taking the words of loud morally righteous extremists and painting all vegans as such. Most are just normal people with generally an above average level of education and material privileges.

[Princess Arabia]

24 minutes ago, Godhead said:

@Princess Arabia That's exactly what happened in psychology. At first they had the term identity disorder, then they renamed it to identity problem and then they dropped the idea entirely since it was so common to have some sort of misalignment in identity.

Don't forget "identity crises".

[integral]

51 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's also in the human identity to be able to follow a higher moral impulse and suspend our lower impulses. That's not dysmorphia; that's what we are. You might feel attracted to eating meat on a primal level, but you can also realize that you don't have to eat meat. This is what makes us so incredible. You might feel compelled to beat a rude person into a pulp, or molest some innocent woman, but you can realize you don't have to do that. You're exactly not a crocodile. You're a human.

Bellow

2 hours ago, integral said:

😂😂😂 this is a masterpiece.

If your identity comes into conflict with your biology then that’s dysmorphia.

if you’re a cannibal that does not come into conflict with your biology so that’s not dysmorphia.

if you’re horny and you want to have sex that is exactly what your biology wants but if you’re horny and you demonize sex then that’s body dysmorphia because your identity is in direct conflict with your biology.

Some identity is in conflict with its own biology and some identity is not. A man born in a woman’s body is in conflict with itself.

Vegan born in a crocodile body is in conflict with itself.

A rapist is in harmony with its body but in conflict with society. So that’s society dysmorphia lol

Sometimes body dysmorphia causes Identity to physically damage the body. And so this is why it’s inharmonious and out of alignment.

Some identity rejects the biology it was born with and is therefore out of alignment with reality, it is a fundamental rejection of reality and rejection of love.

When identity is in Harmony it loves reality exactly the way it is.

—-

A man trapped in a woman’s body can learn to love himself exactly the way he is and then Transcend dysmorphia.

Most vegan identity is fighting biology so it’s dysmorphia.

I explain a bit more above, the dysmorphia is that murder is wrong when you are fundamentally born to murder.

Let’s use sex as an example if someone is demonizing sex when their hormones and biology are fighting them and saying the opposite they are completely out of alignment with reality, with their biology, with life, and because they’re out of alignment they cannot experience any kind of harmony, they have resistance to reality which is a lack of love.

If you’re fighting everything because of some ideology because of some morality because of some anything then you’re resisting reality itself and functioning in the dysmorphic state.

it’s the same reason depression and suicide is a different dysmorphic state with the body because the body does not want to die and your body and mind are doing everything to stop you from dying yet you’re aligned with suicide which is disfunction and a type of body dysmorphia.

suicide is body dysmorphia because it’s resisting the body, which is designed and has its own specific type of intelligence but the bodies intelligence is not in alignment with the persons identity/Intelligence, so that’s dysmorphic. If at higher stages of consciousness you view suicide as a natural process of death then that would be a healthy and aligned body identity. Because death is natural and now your identity accepted it. Identity is now in harmony with reality.

You’re not a floating mind in a vacuum, identity has to align itself in everyway to reality or else you have disfunction.

Edited July 12 by integral

[integral]

You can murder with high morals.

let’s imagine a crocodile acquires a higher moral calling and just begins to feel terrible about the idea of killing an animal to eat it. And every time they eat and they kill they cry. Can you see how that’s a complexity dysfunctional state?

Instead the crocodile could push their consciousness to a higher level and say I love myself enough to accept what I am. I will kill and eat with gratitude, out of love for creation for God.

Understanding and deeply accepting What you are takes a profound leap in consciousness for a crocodile. And for 99.99% of all humans and every out of  aligned resisting identity 

Edited July 13 by integral

[Scholar]

5 hours ago, integral said:

Let’s not make this about whether a human can survive without meat or if they can thrive as a vegan.

Pretend you’re a crocodile 🐊 that now does not want to kill. That’s the body dysmorphia.

You can make the same argument for rape, or murder. Anti-rape and anti-murder are social constructs that contradict your human nature and it's expressions.

 

This is the dumbest thread I have seen on the forum in a long time, lol.

 

 

Rape and murder with gratitude everyone, you heard it here first. Accept what you are, because you are not a human being given the capacity for reason, self improvement and empathy. No, your base desires like wanting to have sex when you want to have sex are far more important and must be accepted. Not only must they accepted as desired, they indeed must be acted upon so that you can love yourself.

Edited July 13 by Scholar

[Scholar]

Guys didn't you know? Humans have sadistic tendencies. Look at all these anti-torture-for-pleasure identity dysmorphians! I love myself so much that I torture infants for breakfast, can you love yourself as much as I can? (this is a joke, if not obvious)

[integral]

@Scholar A child rapist will not die if they don’t rape. Their path to acceptance is to accept who they are except their nature and love themselves for who they are and not demonize what they cannot change, A unfortunate sexual alignment with children that they cannot control. They don’t need to act on it because they’re not gonna die they need to accept who they are.

but a crocodile will literally die and starve to death so for them the choice is very different, they need to have enough love for themselves to kill and eat. They need to accept what they are and lived a life that was forced upon them outside of their control.

Edited July 13 by integral

[Scholar]

Just now, integral said:

@Scholar A child rapist will not die if they don’t rape. Their path to acceptance is to accept who they are except their nature and love themselves for who they are and not demonize what they cannot change, A unfortunate sexual alignment with children that they cannot control. They don’t need to act on it because they’re not gonna die they need to accept who they are.

but a crocodile will literally die and starve to death so for them the choice is very different, they need to have enough love for themselves to kill and eat.

So if the crocodile did need to rape children to survive, self-love would mean raping children, because how can you not accept yourself as the child-raping-crocodile?

Also I don't see how survival is related to acceptance. Do you not accept things that aren't necessary for survival? It is in everyones nature to do things that are not necessary for survival. Are you rejecting what you are? A child rapist predator?

 

 

Oh god, I just realized you are an identity-dysmorphia-dysmorphian! Considering identity-dysmorphia is an integral part of human nature, you are rejecting it and therefore not accepting it, meaning you cannot even love yourself!

You must rid yourselves of identity-dysmorphia-dysmorphia if you really want to know what love is.

[integral]

35 minutes ago, Scholar said:

So if the crocodile did need to rape children to survive, self-love would mean raping children, because how can you not accept yourself as the child-raping-crocodile?

Also I don't see how survival is related to acceptance. Do you not accept things that aren't necessary for survival? It is in everyones nature to do things that are not necessary for survival. Are you rejecting what you are? A child rapist predator?

 

 

Oh god, I just realized you are an identity-dysmorphia-dysmorphian! Considering identity-dysmorphia is an integral part of human nature, you are rejecting it and therefore not accepting it, meaning you cannot even love yourself!

You must rid yourselves of identity-dysmorphia-dysmorphia if you really want to know what love is.

😂😂😂 pure gold.

this is the confusion: your body has intelligence you get hungry you get horny if you are not aligned with these biological processes then your identity is not aligned with your body.

if your a man and your sexual alignment is to men but you grow up in a traditional household and now you hate yourself, this is dysmorphia. Your identity is not in alignment with your body intelligence. Now you need to learn to love yourself.

The example above is one everyone reading can easily accept but when I pick a different topic you guys quickly cannot accept it, because it breaks your moral compass.

if someone is sexually aligned with children there is nothing that will ever change that. They were born that way And they hate themselves for it. So what advice would you give these people? At this level of development the guy attracted to children has empathy and does not want to hurt others. The next stage of his development is to accept who he is and to align his identity with who he is and to the greater whole. That means he is not going to harm anyone… but he will also learn to love himself for who he is and stop demonizing and attacking himself for whatever he was born as.

Can you see how it is disfunction and identity out of alignment to hate whatever your body or fixed traits are.

Now the crocodile has a much harder situation because they need to kill…

Edited July 13 by integral

[Thought Art]

Could someone be vegan and healthy?

[integral]

@Scholar by the way if you want to rape and you’re perfectly fine with rape and you rape then you’re completely in alignment!

That’s not dysmorphia! Dysmorphia would be if you have an impulse to rape but you hate that you have this impulse and then you act on it and you hate that you hurt others, that is A identity out of alignment with reality.

So of course what advice do you give them? you teach them how to come back into alignment but you do it from the highest level possible. You raise them higher than where they are not lower to the first example who was a rapist in alignment.

The first guy of course you wanna project your higher morals on to them so you first need to break their alignment put them into disfunction for a while and then stitched him back up later. lol

A crocodile will look at another crocodile and be disgusted that it’s killing to eat, that crocodile has an extreme case of body dysmorphia and species dysmorphia. they hate their own species. it’s complete disfunction for a crocodile to awaken to loving everything around them at first! It takes a long journey for them to accept what they are, what their species is and to stop hating everything they see.

Edited July 13 by integral

[toasty7718]

I think it's understandable to question the nature of humans...especially in relation to veganism and animal agriculture.

However, comparing human dietary choices to the instinctual survival behaviors of other animals—like a crocodile's need to kill to survive—overlooks a crucial difference ... our capacity for ethical reasoning and moral decision-making.

 

Humans have a complex biology. But suggesting that a vegan lifestyle is a rejection of our nature simplifies of humans.

 

Our adaptability and intelligence have allowed us to thrive on a variety of diets throughout different time periods and in different environments. The argument for veganism is less about denying our biological potential for omnivorous diets and more about electing to make choices that align with ethical considerations regarding animal welfare, environmental sustainability, and health.

 

saying veganism is an identity crisis or a form of "dysmorphia" misunderstands the motivations behind the choice.

 

Vegans usually become vegan in the first place via critical thinking about the impact of their choices on animals... the planet... and their own health. This isn't "rejection of humanity" but its an embrace of our unique human ability to reflect on and adjust our behaviors based on ethical considerations.

 

& I also think that implying selfishness is foundational to being human underestimates human compassion and our capability for altruism.
 

History and current history are have tons of humans acting against their immediate self-interest for the greater good or in defense of ethical principles. The choice to be vegan is an example wherein individuals might see the welfare of animals and the environment over personal convenience or habit.

 

Embracing veganism doesn't mean denying our nature any more than adopting any other ethical standpoint does. It's more so about the fact that we see other animals might eat each other out of necessity while also seeing that have the privilege of choice. Utilizing our human attributes of empathy and moral reasoning, I think adopting a plant-based lifestyle isn't "being untrue to our nature" and isn't an "identity crisis" ... it's a celebration of the best aspects of what it can mean to be human.

 

& using your same logic, it's perfectly nature for humans to rape each other and kill infants, which has been done by humans for thousands of years because "humans are killers." Humans have the capacity for moral reasoning. I disagree. 

Edited July 13 by toasty7718