About Desire

[Javfly33]

Holding a thought of Desire in the mind is stupid, it debilitates oneself. 

Attaching to the mind happens because of not experiencing oneself as an Independent Phenomena of this mind. (One"seems to be all over the place") .

Striving for Freedom is necessary, we literally have become a slave of our creation.

Edited July 11 by Javfly33

[Evelyna]

Could you elaborate please? Are you suggesting that the mind is separate from oneself? I just want to correctly understand your point please?

[Davino]

Good luck surviving without desire.

Do what you preach.

 

Demonizing desire is as stupid as foolish desiring. You need to refine desire, understand its mechanisms, use desire as a liberation tool, and so on.

Infuse desire with consciousness, wisdom and intelligence so to speak.

Edited July 12 by Davino

[Davino]

@Javfly33 My personal meta advice for you is to develop yourself up in Spiral Dynamics. Your spirituality is good enough but you can't get beyond your maturity. This trips up all your spiritual pursuits. 

[BipolarGrowth]

How do you strive without desire?

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Evelyna said:

Could you elaborate please? Are you suggesting that the mind is separate from oneself? I just want to correctly understand your point please?

Of course. The mind is a subproduct of You. Even when there is no mind you exist.

So obviously if the mind is producing any type of bad feeling (in form of desire-feeling of lack), clearly you are not using the tool right.

 

14 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

How do you strive without desire?

Well, Instead of striving, the action becomes an expression of the fullness within. 

So...I´m not advocating for a lack of action, but rather avoiding acting in the world from a place of lack.

 

As a 'spicy' example, look at the difference at how a man can have sex with a woman when...:

A) He is not needy and is full of love and complete within itself

B) When he is needy and tries to extract value or love from the woman.

Which one of the woman will prefer and will provide more higuer, profund, more pleasurable type of sex?

[Evelyna]

27 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Of course. The mind is a subproduct of You. Even when there is no mind you exist

Do you have any proof of this I would like to see proof or is it just your assumption? I don’t believe that the mind is a sub product of anything , it’s a part of the whole, like parts of the machine and one wouldn’t work without the other. 
And the mind isn’t producing the bad feelings as you call them , your beliefs do, or system of beliefs you have created. You defining the outcome of your beliefs and actions as the mind when really mind just processes those and doesn’t work on its own. Bashar explains this very well I think. 
 

“”So...I´m not advocating for a lack of action, but rather avoiding acting in the world from a place of lack.”””

now this is a matter of choice and not the  product of the mind itself. 
I think to properly have this conversation we would have to agree on the meaning of some definitions and then we could re discuss. I think you may be confusing definitions a little bit. 

[Javfly33]

10 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

Do you have any proof of this I would like to see proof or is it just your assumption? I don’t believe that the mind is a sub product of anything , it’s a part of the whole, like parts of the machine and one wouldn’t work without the other. 
And the mind isn’t producing the bad feelings as you call them , your beliefs do, or system of beliefs you have created. You defining the outcome of your beliefs and actions as the mind when really mind just processes those and doesn’t work on its own. Bashar explains this very well I think. 
 

“”So...I´m not advocating for a lack of action, but rather avoiding acting in the world from a place of lack.”””

now this is a matter of choice and not the  product of the mind itself. 
I think to properly have this conversation we would have to agree on the meaning of some definitions and then we could re discuss. I think you may be confusing definitions a little bit. 

You can find proof inside Yourself if you contemplate this properly:

Before you had a body, there was no mind either.

The mind is just a product of the body, we are calling It mind for the sake of language, but mind is just another dimension of the body, just more subtle. 

Clearly if the body is something that has a beggining and an end, It can not be You.

So whatever is You before you got a body and a mind, that is You also now.

 

So clearly whatever the Mind produces right now, is something that you are picking Up, you are 'peeking' into the Mind.

If you make the mistake anything that the mind produces is you,  Anything, is You, or It has something to do with you, then we say you are in Hallucination mode.

 

So we could Say Spirituality is going from hallucination to Truth.

From identification to Reality.

From ignorance to Clarity.

Edited July 12 by Javfly33

[Evelyna]

28 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

You can find proof inside Yourself if you contemplate this properly:

Before you had a body, there was no mind either.

The mind is just a product of the body, we are calling It mind for the sake of language, but mind is just another dimension of the body, just more subtle. 

Clearly if the body is something that has a beggining and an end, It can not be You.

So whatever is You before you got a body and a mind, that is You also now.

 

So clearly whatever the Mind produces right now, is something that you are picking Up, you are 'peeking' into the Mind.

If you make the mistake anything that the mind produces is you,  Anything, is You, or It has something to do with you, then we say you are in Hallucination mode.

 

So we could Say Spirituality is going from hallucination to Truth.

From identification to Reality.

From ignorance to Clarity.

I very respectfully disagree , this is an assumption, contemplation , you can’t know this for sure, you also can not prove  this is true. You have no memory from before you got the body nor did you die for a good while and came back to life to tell us that’s what it is. I can only agree that this is one assumption  but you absolutely have every right to hold this belief if you want to I choose a different one. 

Edited July 12 by Evelyna

[An young being]

Desire leads to suffering, but desire leads to new experiences as well. 

[Javfly33]

39 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

 you can’t know this for sure, you also can not prove  this is true. You have no memory from before you got the body nor did you die for a good while and came back to life to tell us that’s what it is. I can only agree that this is one assumption  but you absolutely have every right to hold this belief if you want to I choose a different one. 

What is that I can not know for sure?

Where do you think thoughts and ideas happen? In the wall? In the sky?

Quote

you also can not prove  this is true

What is it that I have to proof exactly? That your body is going straight to the grave?

Do you really need proof for that? 

 

Quote

. You have no memory from before you got the body nor did you die for a good while and came back to life to tell us that’s what it is.

Ok... If you think the body and mind is going to last forever, what is the problem? 

 

Quote

have every right to hold this belief if you want to I choose a different one. 

What belief am I holding exactly?

Edited July 12 by Javfly33

[Evelyna]

@Javfly33 ahhhh I see now, you believe that the mind only exists within the physical body and not beyond that and you will defend that belief no matter what. You aren’t open to any other possibility at this moment and it makes this dialog pointless as I can see you will not be convinced otherwise no matter who says what. 
And we weren’t talking about wether body dies or not we were talking about the mind in connection to the body I believe. 
you have misunderstood me I don’t have a problem with your belief I just don’t agree with it because I have a different perspective,  it’s just a discussion and not a personal attack on you I can promise you that, so don’t take this personally. 

[Javfly33]

52 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

@Javfly33  You aren’t open to any other possibility at this moment and it makes this dialog pointless as I can see you will not be convinced otherwise no matter who says what. 

I´m all ears. What is the other possibility?

[Evelyna]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

I´m all ears. What is the other possibility?

 An idea that the mind is not the same as the body, but neither is it separate from the body, body and mind are connected but they are not the same thing. 

Example: 

Some scientists and medical doctors consider the mind to be no more than a side-effect of the brain. If that is so, then their opinion is no more than a side-effect of the brain as well.

Please bear in mind we are talking about ideas/assumtpions/perspectives , both of those assumptions could be wrong. 

 

Edited July 12 by Evelyna

[Ishanga]

5 hours ago, An young being said:

Desire leads to suffering, but desire leads to new experiences as well. 

No, Desire does not lead to Suffering, Suffering is self created! Pain exist in Life for sure, Suffering is different from pain, for the most part (unless You live in a war zone or are subjected to torture daily) Suffering comes from either ppl reliving past events in their minds, or are unconscious of certain aspects of who they are, like trauma hidden within the body or subconscious, unconscious mind... Awareness cures all of this, and Desire is found at every step of the way, you cannot be Embodied and not have Desiring process happening...

[An young being]

7 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Suffering comes from either ppl reliving past events in their minds, or are unconscious of certain aspects of who they are, like trauma hidden within the body or subconscious, unconscious mind... Awareness cures all of this, and Desire is found at every step of the way, you cannot be Embodied and not have Desiring process happening

Just like past events can lead to suffering, thinking about the future, especially in the forms of desires, which are mostly selfish in nature, can also lead to suffering. Complete awareness itself is a desire-free state, although the path to reach there is filled with desires. 

Suffering is not a word to be afraid of, in my opinion. Suffering can come in many magnitudes, and the lesser, the more blissful we can be. There's no need to be completely free from suffering.

[Javfly33]

24 minutes ago, An young being said:

There's no need to be completely free from suffering.

Speak for yourself LoL.

[An young being]

49 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Speak for yourself LoL.

It's a perpetual cycle, if you desire to be free from suffering, you'll have suffering resulting from such a desire.

But yes, you can desire to be free from suffering, a desire strong enough as such can stop your worries about suffering, and come into acceptance with that. You'll not volunteering chase suffering, but you wouldn't care much even if it occurs.

[Javfly33]

13 minutes ago, An young being said:

It's a perpetual cycle,

Precisely when you are free from suffering you can stop the cycles and go somewhere new!  

[Breakingthewall]

18 hours ago, Ishanga said:

No, Desire does not lead to Suffering, Suffering is self created! Pain exist in Life for sure, Suffering is different from pain, for the most part (unless You live in a war zone or are subjected to torture daily) Suffering comes from either ppl reliving past events in their minds, or are unconscious of certain aspects of who they are, like trauma hidden within the body or subconscious, unconscious mind... Awareness cures all of this, and Desire is found at every step of the way, you cannot be Embodied and not have Desiring process happening...

Suffering is something inherent to the fact of having a mind. having a mind and not suffering is almost impossible. If they tell you that strange mole you have is a melanoma, you will suffer, or if your son disappears for two days, or if your girlfriend with whom you have a life project starts ignoring you, or if your business is robbed, or if a guy calls you shitty son of a bitch and spits in your face,  or if your newborn child has cerebral palsy, or if you are a woman in Afghanistan, etc etc etc etc. Suffering is part of the mind, even you can meditate until the absolute emptiness, after you are back in the movement of life, and always shit happens. At least I see impossible to stop suffering, then I try to enjoy the fight. we will rest in peace when we are dead, for now, its quite difficult 

Many found a solution: I'm going to be a monk, out of the human movement, who doesn't care about anything, then I won't suffer. Well, it could work I you can bear that life

Edited July 13 by Breakingthewall