Is True Creativity even possible?

[Bobby_2021]

Is it possible for the human mind to come up with something truly out of something from out of this world? 

Every thought we have is some permutation of something we observed from Nature or from other people who might have gotten it from nature. 

Even Einstein and Newton came up with their ideas after getting inspiration from nature. It makes me wonder that we never come up with something new but rather we observe connections from what already exists in nature. Making that connection is the usual epiphany that we get.  

The things that we can think about and play with are fixed in this life. You can explore around and find the things that are already in nature, but impossible to come up something that already you have not come across before.

Thoughts?

[Princess Arabia]

Anything that anybody comes up with is because it already exists. There is nothing actually new "under the sun" because creation is finished. New inventions, yes, but it can only be derived from something that already exists. It's all being recycled and being transformed.

It's all creativity. My typing these words is creativity. Lots of creativeness went into my being able to communicate with you and for you to be able to understand what I'm saying. So saying true creativity is kind of redundant because there's no such thing as false creativity. If someone paints a picture and another person copies that painting exactly, that's also true creativity. To be able to copy someone's painting exactly requires creativity. No one owns creativity.

[Bobby_2021]

@Princess Arabia But there should be something more since we do find new things every day. Why can't we just come up with it from scratch?

We know something exists after we have found it and conceptualized it. But it existed even before we came to see it. 

[Leo Gura]

True creativity is inspired from all around by examples.

So there is no contradiction.

Yes, you can invent totally new things, but it won't come from a vacuum.

Edited July 10 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

True creativity is inspired from all around by examples.

So there is no contradiction.

Yes, you can invent totally new things, but it won't come from a vacuum.

I guess it qualifies for a human level of creativity since you are creating something that no humans have came up with before.

But I guess you should be able to come up with something from total scratch or a vacuum as you put it. This would be a solid notch above human creativity.

God level creativity that materialises ideas into existence with no inspiration from elsewhere. 

[LastThursday]

I'd say that the more abstract you go the less possible it is to tell if creativity is based on something else - think mathematics.

In any case, if you build a house, the bricks and wood are not new ideas, but the house is unique. The product of creativity may be based on previous ideas, but the new creation is a kind of platonic form which is divorced from everything else, and is its own thing. It's basically the sameness versus difference argument: creativity creates "difference", but many aspects of it will be "the same". So @Bobby_2021 you're asking if you can have "difference" without "sameness".

[_Archangel_]

Creativity is the original combination of different elements.
When the combination is original enough, we give it a new name to differentiate from the previous, such as "Punk Rock" or "Cubism" " or "Existentialism"

There is no such thin as creation without recombination.
Otherwise we wouldn't even be able to understand what we are looking at.
 

[vibv]

6 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Is it possible for the human mind to come up with something truly out of something from out of this world? 

Every thought we have is some permutation of something we observed from Nature or from other people who might have gotten it from nature. 

Even Einstein and Newton came up with their ideas after getting inspiration from nature. It makes me wonder that we never come up with something new but rather we observe connections from what already exists in nature. Making that connection is the usual epiphany that we get.  

The things that we can think about and play with are fixed in this life. You can explore around and find the things that are already in nature, but impossible to come up something that already you have not come across before.

Thoughts?

The whole idea that the universe would be totally describable by the arrangement of its definable parts is wrong. All distinctions (between parts of the whole) and every boundary is imaginary. It is infinite beyond infinite beyond infinite...

But to answer the original question: All great poetry/music/painting/etc. stems from some spark of True Creativity. The less that spark is present, the more dull the result will feel. At the same time you need to put that spark into something tangible (or listenable and so on), and for that you use all the tools and ideas that have been created over many thousands of years. Without them, it wouldn't even be possible to create truly great art – and greater and greater art with time.

So you both need that spark of True Creativity and you (have to) use everything already available to bring that to the material world, and in the process, in a sense, broadening and deepening the toolset of humanity.

Edited July 10 by vibv

[Evelyna]

“Art is not what you see, but what you make others see.” – Edgar Degas 

7 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The things that we can think about and play with are fixed in this life. You can explore around and find the things that are already in nature, but impossible to come up something that already you have not come across before.

Hmm , once after a mushroom trip I painted an amazing combination of what I saw, which definitely was not of this world nor inspired by that what already is on earth  As an artist I can say that we as humans can definitely come up with new things not necessary being inspired by what we see around us every day or what knowledge we have, sometimes its tripping on psychedelics that can provide an inspiration LOL. 

[An young being]

Scientifically, everything is made up of atoms, so theoretically we can't create anything new, since whatever we create will be made up of atoms. 

So, the definition of true creativity can be something closer to finding combinations of existing things in the world in different forms, and create a new combination that is free from our usual products of logical and conditioned thinking. True creativity in this sense will be opposite of perfect logic. For example, combining pizza with chutney will be something close to true creativity.

Maybe that's why some people at higher consciousness states are being able to be extremely creative, because they are free from logically conditioned patterns.

 

[Davino]

Quote

Think a thought no human has ever thought before

Leo Gura

This quote hit me as hard as a nuclear bomb when I first listened it. I'm not sure from which episode it was.

Many times now I sit and try to think something absolutely novel and virgin.

To think a thought no one has ever thought! It gets me out of chair of how exciting that is.

[vibv]

26 minutes ago, An young being said:

Scientifically, everything is made up of atoms, so theoretically we can't create anything new, since whatever we create will be made up of atoms. 

There are no atoms, just your imagination.

[An young being]

8 minutes ago, vibv said:

There are no atoms, just your imagination.

There's no imagination, just you.

[An young being]

23 minutes ago, An young being said:

There's no imagination, just you.

In fact, there's no you as well, there just is.

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, An young being said:

Scientifically, everything is made up of atoms, so theoretically we can't create anything new, since whatever we create will be made up of atoms. 

So, the definition of true creativity can be something closer to finding combinations of existing things in the world in different forms

Yeah, this here is close to what I was saying, really nothing new under the sun.

[Princess Arabia]

8 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Princess Arabia But there should be something more since we do find new things every day. Why can't we just come up with it from scratch?

We know something exists after we have found it and conceptualized it. But it existed even before we came to see it. 

I can create a meal from scratch, but I'd be using ingredients that already exists. I think you're asking for the impossible as everything is in relation to something else. There's nothing in the universe that stands alone and apart from everything else , not even thoughts and ideas; they too will be in relation to. Things can be from scratch, but there will be some connection somewhere when traced back. As far as on the surface level and appearance, yes it can appear to be the first ever made but will have some form of connection to something else as part of the whole.

Edited July 10 by Princess Arabia

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, An young being said:

Scientifically, everything is made up of atoms, so theoretically we can't create anything new, since whatever we create will be made up of atoms. 

So, the definition of true creativity can be something closer to finding combinations of existing things in the world in different forms, and create a new combination that is free from our usual products of logical and conditioned thinking. True creativity in this sense will be opposite of perfect logic. For example, combining pizza with chutney will be something close to true creativity.

Maybe that's why some people at higher consciousness states are being able to be extremely creative, because they are free from logically conditioned patterns.

 

You're telling me that girl I made out with in my dream and felt her wet tongue was made out of atoms? Great googly moogly!

 

 

Edited July 10 by Dodo

[An young being]

37 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You're telling me that girl I made out with in my dream and felt her wet tongue was made out of atoms? Great googly moogly!

Maybe, but the girl-like character you first saw is made up of atoms, and the memories in your brain which you used for dreaming are stored as atoms. Who knows, maybe the dream itself is getting synthesized as atoms. It's all only true if you believe in science, of course!

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, An young being said:

There's no imagination, just you.

There no you. Lol don't get me started😜

[An young being]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

There no you. Lol don't get me started😜

I don't wish to go into that infinite loop either