Meta Sol (meta solutions)

[kavaris]

Ive had a revelation - So please bare with me so i can get to the point... Its important, atleast i think so - les' anyone is too nervous or too resistant to take it seriously.

Recently my cat has been obsessively grooming/biting herself, and the area thats particular sensitive is around the base of her tail. Theres several things it could be a result of, but its occurred to me... These are all the unusual cat things that happen to cats; And likewise, these are all the unusual people-things that happen to people who are watching others that are also experiencing unusual people-symptoms that which happen to people.

And its like, isnt there like an obvious meta solution to all of this... For example, anything that my mom sees on the cat is in her mind- a flea... if she bites herself then rest assured, in her mind it'll be due to fleas. Likewise, i would have these friends who would experience whatever they were going through, but the non-meta solutions they kept coming up w/ were that it was a virus or something - you know, unusual experiences that prompted'em to conclude some temporary answer to a problem... And, then that answer becomes the canonical solution from there on out, even if its cyclically wrong... Wrong why?... Well lets continue....

Sometimes there's no solution, sometimes its more like a scenario where too many things are happening, and not one main thing can be concluded as the possible issue - you have to just go with your gut. I keep thinking about life as this random, chaotic situation that is solved by incrementally allowing conclusions to bubble up, that which may not necessarily be right, but they continue to be some kind of action.

Actions are like, things that happen in the game_world from something you triggered (or from something else that triggered something else...)  Like... They may not necessarily conform to a truth or a fact but they are just actions that remain active, existent. They are for all intents and purposes, a truth or fact to you-or for that time being.

You have to be open to the possibility that everything is happening due to actions that may or may not make sense, but that they are like these cyclical decisions that inhabit the game_world. They dont necessarily mean anything. And when they live out their lifetime, they'll be replaced by an equally, rationally-sounding thing that you think is canon to real-rational-reality. It is, in one sense or  another, baked in, hardcoded into the fabric - i.e. that place where everything doesnt actually make sense, since you are on to discovering the fact (... while you're experiencing it.)

We kindve-sortve taken that for granted, because it happens so briefly. Let us try now... to put this stuff into words, so we can read them, understand them- let them sink in and try to bring them into our dreams to see what is going on. Are dreams are doing alot of work to rearrange things, and create scenes that dont make sense.

My dreams are painful. I cant sleep for more than an hour without it just going haywire. I think its like, we just dont understand ourselves, whats going on-and for good reason, right?... Its too chaotix - its like... How can you experience the thing, as the thing you want to see change, or rather... How can you identify what those things are if they are essential components that you've been building up for so long... changing, being modulated... I just felt the need to somehow get the ball rolling on this subject, and this topic specifically. Hopefully others will be able to understand it better and re-explain it from their point of view.

Edited July 9 by kavaris

[integral]

The issue is you can believe whatever you want as long as reality never forces you to face it. Survival does not depend on truth. It doesn’t matter what you believe as long as your survival is not threatened your beliefs never need to be adjusted. Only when you have a top value that is truth that you actually care about truth.

There are closed system games like chess where the truth is calculated and when you’re wrong the chessboard shows you you’re wrong and there is no way for you to deny the truth because you lose the game. So now because you were wrong you need to self reflect and identified the wrong thinking process that created that belief and correct it. In real life people don’t have to do this because life is an open system and your beliefs are not tested, so you never need to learn to self reflect you never need to learn to think about thinking to correct your mistakes. Doctors never need to face their mistakes so they just repeat the same nonsense every day for the rest of their lives and they never need to see how their practice fails people on a daily basis. In fact rewarded with a massive financial salary and praise from everyone regardless if there right or wrong.

so on top of all this people are incentivized by being wrong by groupthink or financial rewards so they could dive deep into self deception because an open system leaves plenty of room for it.

The first principle of chess is “ when you see a good move, look for a better one“.

This flies over 99% of peoples heads because when they see a good move they think it’s true.

most people never played chess they never played a game where they’re thinking process was shown to be flawed so they have no idea they have flaws in their thinking process.

Chess shows you that your intuition is always wrong it shows you that your gut feeling is always wrong it shows you that your thinking process is deeply flawed and a spaghetti mess of bias and emotionally co-opted. It shows you that you’re completely blinded by your emotions and your emotions seep into all your beliefs. And the reason it shows you all this is because when you make that move the board will tell you the truth and unlike the real world you Cannot deceive yourself or justify it in anyway.

You did a bunch of work to create a belief in your mind you made that belief come true by making a move on the board and the board told you the truth. How you constructed your belief was flawed because you just lost.

Edited July 10 by integral

[theleelajoker]

23 hours ago, integral said:

The issue is you can believe whatever you want as long as reality never forces you to face it. Survival does not depend on truth. It doesn’t matter what you believe as long as your survival is not threatened your beliefs never need to be adjusted. Only when you have a top value that is truth that you actually care about truth.

There are closed system games like chess where the truth is calculated and when you’re wrong the chessboard shows you you’re wrong and there is no way for you to deny the truth because you lose the game. So now because you were wrong you need to self reflect and identified the wrong thinking process that created that belief and correct it. In real life people don’t have to do this because life is an open system and your beliefs are not tested, so you never need to learn to self reflect you never need to learn to think about thinking to correct your mistakes.

Bam. Love how you articulated this.

My perspective: Reality does not force you - I agree. Reality softly, gently gives you signs. Signales. Symbols. Nudges. Such as Emotions. Conscience.  Depression. Frustration. Aggression.  If we do not react to those signals, the body reacts. A back issue here. A headache there. If we still don't react, it becoming more. It starts slow and increases in intensity. 

I ignored these signals most of my life and only slowly learn to listen to them.

 

Quote

Chess shows you that your intuition is always wrong it shows you that your gut feeling is always wrong it shows you that your thinking process is deeply flawed and a spaghetti mess of bias and emotionally co-opted. It shows you that you’re completely blinded by your emotions and your emotions seep into all your beliefs. And the reason it shows you all this is because when you make that move the board will tell you the truth and unlike the real world you Cannot deceive yourself or justify it in anyway.

Disagree on this. I love my intuition. In many, many, many cases it allowed me incredible experiences.

Is it ALWAYS right? Don't know, there are areas of the mind and intellect where logic and rationality is likely to be superior. Likely that in the area of chess,  moves are most of the times best when "thought through".  But I would rather live without logic than without intuition. Emotions can and do cloud my judgement sometimes - but it rather clouds my intuition than my logic.

Edited July 11 by theleelajoker

[integral]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Disagree on this. I love my intuition. In many, many, many cases it allowed me incredible experiences.

People win chess games on bad moves. As long as the world does not reflect your error you can be rewarded for it. Trump is the president of United States.

[kavaris]

@integral Hey srry im responding late. I appreciate your response. I thought of another perspective, which i considered making a separate thread about, but hey... why not continue...

So, this is based on an experience i had where i was under anesthesia, specifically ketamine which may or may not be relevant. I had already tried ketamine, just not in anesthesia circumstances, and the weird thing is that, the following all seemed to occur before they actually began the ketamine...

Or, in other words... They were transfering me from one table to the other (if youve ever been to the hospital, they wheel you around on those tables, transfering you to the operation table when they get you to the next room)... Anywhoo, i transfered over to the table. At that point, its unlikely they had began the anesthesia, right?... only seconds had passed. Well, i shifted my body onto the table... and the second i laid my head back, it was as if i closed my eyes... and... *blackness*, like... (Not a second passed between laying my head back and everything)... the bright room faded immediately, as i shut my eyes for a second!...

So within that second of time, it was as if i had a second-long dream, and in the next second i was opening my eyes inside of another dark room with a tube down my throat, realizing the surgery was already over (i cant stress enough, it was only a second).. And i was now in the recovery room (which itself was a dark room)...

Ive never been able to explain it, suffice to say that it proved that a dream-like thing can sweep over you so fast that you cant "intercept" what happened, only that, in one instant you were *here*, and the next instant i was *there*, typeve thing...

And this surely extends into other such things as, in one instant - believing we are *this* and in the next instant believing we are *that*. Which is quite odd to imagine, as in dreams the act of stumbling upon yourself means you recover yourself sometimes. So this would be more like, you dream a dream that *replaces* all notions of a prior, that then becomes the technical beginning.... Atleast, hypothetically speaking it would seem that is then possible.

What would cause that to happen i dont know.. its a bit odd.. As is, things happening in one instant to the next without recollection. But it demonstrates the feableness of memory tracking memory, or what would be considered as the state of one thing to the next.

Edited July 18 by kavaris