How does materialism demystify reality?

[BlessedLion]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No one cares about reality. They are just using reality to survive, like monkeys.

Your mistake is assuming that people care. Even scientists and philosophers don't really care.

I don’t think that’s true. I think people are just tired of being misled and don’t believe there is an actual possibility for understanding it 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I don’t think that’s true. I think people are just tired of being misled and don’t believe there is an actual possibility for understanding it 

No. They just never cared about truth in the first place.

It took me decades just to realize that truth is a value very few humans actually have.

Once you understand that, it all makes sense.

Edited July 8 by Leo Gura

[JoshB]

@Leo Gura Well im not here to argue with people who are close minded gotta sort the wheat from the chaff. Unless they ask me i look for individuals in late green to yellow to initiate. But I am asked honestly sometimes what my "beliefs" are. And they want honest answers. But really even without telling them directly. I would still like to understand the flaws in their epistemology and metaphysics to further help me understand where they are coming from. To integrate the ignorance of others when it comes to the topic of Truth. I just want a total and holistic understanding of survival. Not just in the physical domain. 

Edited July 8 by JoshB

[Davino]

@JoshB Yes man I get you.

The point is that for them to make sense of you they have to deconstruct their whole worldview, which would take months and years. Imagine you had to deconstruct all your nationality, spirituality and sexuality to understand a friend. Would you do it?

Otherwise, you are a weirdo or an outsider at the best from their POV. Which is fine I mean, whatever. You should have a solid character and mature presence though, for metaphysics to hold properly. If not they'll think you are a nutcase. 

I just don't talk about metaphysics with normies unless they ask a good question or I'm tripping with them. It's also good if you can deliver mystical experiences or glimpses by your presence and energy, that can help. Also consider that women are more receptive to all of these, men are not.

[JoshB]

9 hours ago, What Am I said:

If the main question of the thread is asking "How will the rest of the world, including the rational and scientific community as a whole, become aware of a spiritual reality?", it will take more than a few descriptions of your inner subjective experience. I can't imagine that'll ever be convincing, no matter how detailed and poetic the description.

Strong objective evidence of something way outside the accepted norm, and which has an obvious and reproducible impact on the physical world, needs to be presented to start shifting perspectives. That could come in a large number of forms. People seem to forget, but there's an infinite range of subtle spiritual phenomena between the gross and the causal.

The main theme of this story of life is "God", but at the same time "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." I think it's very easy to get tunnel vision on the God aspect, which I admit isn't the worst thing on which to get tunnel vision. It's just that as an individual expression of God, you're left relatively incomplete and with blind spots.

No I'm not really asking how'll they'll become aware. People are so ignorant most will never get even 1% awake. It's integrating all that ignorance into your own understanding of reality. 

[JoshB]

All I value / want is Truth I crave for it. I'm not satisfied with anything less then it. And I take self deception and epistemology very seriously unlike most. Meanwhile I'm 23 most people my age don't give a fuck about truth. They're too busy partying and drinking. Let alone becoming directly concious they are God like I have. It's the pain of no matter what I say or do. Their ignorance is so strong I'll never breakthrough. And I never want to fall into the traps they have. 

 

[JoshB]

I want to teach and explain better to those that do care. And see through the ignorance of those that don't. 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. They just never cared about truth in the first place.

It took me decades just to realize that truth is a value very few humans actually have.

Once you understand that, it all makes sense.

It's both liberating and terrifying to finally realize that. A big part of those decades are spent in denial "No I know for a fact they want to learn truth it just isn't the right time yet"

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, JoshB said:

I want to teach and explain better to those that do care. And see through the ignorance of those that don't. 

It's hard because even those who care will listen but they may not have the guts to apply it. The problem with one on one private teaching is you put all your eggs in one basket and hope they come through. If you teach masses at a single time even if only 10 percent listen you can be satisfied knowing it was worth it

[Ishanga]

3 hours ago, JoshB said:

I want to teach and explain better to those that do care. And see through the ignorance of those that don't. 

We Don't need anymore teachers and ppl that explain things, there's too much of that already, it creates mass confusion as when ppl doing become curious about Spirituality and want information there's too much conflicting info out there, everyone is trying to be unique and promote but it creates chaos.. We need less teachers, as the info is already out there, the methods needed to awaken are already available to the mass variety of ppl and personalities that are on the planet, for every unique human being there already is a way to Wake Up, and these methods/teachings have been around for millennia..

What we do need more of is what I said before, be the Awakened One, Live it Live today in real time, people will notice it and may become curious about those sorts of ppl, how they respond to life, how they are within themselves, how they empower all life around them rather than sucking the life out of life around them, that is what we need more of in this world, not more Teachers...  

[An young being]

17 hours ago, JoshB said:

Whenever i explain Awakening to a scientific/rational person it is immediately shut down. And they can't even just conceptually open their mind to infinite conciousness being a possibility. And then further more I am demonized when i was trying to guide them to awakening. I'm sure many of you have struggled with this demonizing of the messenger.

It maybe because you haven't provided enough bread crumbles for them to reach that place called awakening. You can't say heaven exists ( not saying awakening is heaven though), and expect people to believe in heaven. You will be regarded as another guy who is a religious fanatic. Instead, you should build steps for them to help them see it for themselves. For that, you should break your own beliefs and become more open minded. You can't regard awakening as something achievable through only specific means, and not reachable by a rational mind. 

For example, if you wish to explain awakening to a scientific person, you should point them towards researches that deals with awakening, such as researches on long term meditators, psychedelics etc. and point to the fact that no conclusive evidence exists which suggests that it's simply a mental phenomenon. In that way, you'll be able to establish such spiritual experiences rationally to a scientific minded person. 

 

 

 

 

[An young being]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. They just never cared about truth in the first place.

It took me decades just to realize that truth is a value very few humans actually have.

Once you understand that, it all makes sense.

It's true that most don't care about things like how the universe works, why do I exist etc. It might be because people are afraid to know certain truths. For example, if I am doing lots of selfish things because of my ego,( which most people do), I wouldn't want to know if God really exists and he would punish us for them.

But what many people would like to know is a way to end the suffering they are undergoing. That's why they are getting attracted to spiritual leaders in large numbers, to find a source for happiness. That's what most people seem to care about, a way to be happier or to be in heaven.

[Keryo Koffa]

@JoshB It's an identity issue, imagine you've been a shepherd all your life and some guy comes over and tells you all your sheep are holograms. It doesn't compute and even if it did, you're too invested. Or that your parents aren't real, or that the bible is a distraction and your ticket to heaven and the morality that was such a pain in the ass to execute all your life was faulty. It's also social circles creating their own group think and eco-chambers, instantly dismissing anything new and coping with drugs, gossip, laughter. It's also academics investing too much time in one thing and having to deal with the whole paradigm behind their work being faulty. Or tell a banker that money isn't real. Or a teacher that what he was teaching was wrong all along. Or a victim that he did it to himself. Tell a solipsist, he locked himself out of greater awareness, or a nihilist that he's missing the positive side. Or the mystic that his awakening was shallow after all. Or endless other permutations. It's also about the right understanding, how do you know yours is complete, only if you can fully comprehend a paradigm and its opposite, could you say that from a higher vantage point. But Leo has tons of videos about all that already. Ego, identity, belief, attachment, etcetc. Here's a video and I included the timestamp to get right to it

 

Edited July 8 by Keryo Koffa

[An young being]

22 minutes ago, An young being said:

It maybe because you haven't provided enough bread crumbles for them to reach that place called awakening

Here's one such crumb: 

https://bigthink.com/mind-brain/we-now-know-what-a-spiritual-awakening-looks-like-inside-the-brain/

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

We Don't need anymore teachers and ppl that explain things, there's too much of that already, it creates mass confusion as when ppl doing become curious about Spirituality and want information there's too much conflicting info out there, everyone is trying to be unique and promote but it creates chaos.. We need less teachers, as the info is already out there, the methods needed to awaken are already available to the mass variety of ppl and personalities that are on the planet, for every unique human being there already is a way to Wake Up, and these methods/teachings have been around for millennia..

What we do need more of is what I said before, be the Awakened One, Live it Live today in real time, people will notice it and may become curious about those sorts of ppl, how they respond to life, how they are within themselves, how they empower all life around them rather than sucking the life out of life around them, that is what we need more of in this world, not more Teachers...  

Hey hey Mr always getting on my case, I like what you've said here. I really do. What you've said is actually more effective than more blah blah blahing. The chain reaction that comes from the energetic responses is way more contagious than just people gaining more knowledge in this department. People are responding to their environments, and if more people start to lead with actions and ways of being; it can rub off in an impactful way and others will follow since people love to act like sheep.

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Hey hey Mr always getting on my case, I like what you've said here. I really do. What you've said is actually more effective than more blah blah blahing. The chain reaction that comes from the energetic responses is way more contagious than just people gaining more knowledge in this department. People are responding to their environments, and if more people start to lead with actions and ways of being; it can rub off in an impactful way and others will follow since people love to act like sheep.

Glad we can agree on something:)

[Davino]

7 hours ago, JoshB said:

I want to teach and explain better to those that do care. And see through the ignorance of those that don't. 

Why do you care?

Make sure to deconstruct any teacher complex, saviour, healer or wise man identities.

They'll limit your Awakenings and rob you of your peace. Trying to convince others to your point of view is a sure recipe for frustration. I know where you are coming from and your good intentions but the more you advance the less people that will be there. Enjoy your meal, no need to share it, they may not like it. Truth is an acquired taste.

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Davino said:

Why do you care?

Make sure to deconstruct any teacher complex, saviour, healer or wise man identities.

They'll limit your Awakenings and rob you of your peace. Trying to convince others to your point of view is a sure recipe for frustration. I know where you are coming from and your good intentions but the more you advance the less people that will be there. Enjoy your meal, no need to share it, they may not like it. Truth is an acquired taste.

This is a lesson that is well deserving to be learnt. It will save the "savior" so much heart felt problems and let downs and disappointments. I had to learn the hard way. Had to go through it first to see the lesson/value in leaving things be. I still have remnants of it, but not as much as before. 

Somehow, it's something within us we're trying to subconsciously heal and we use this method to aid in that even though it's not recognized at first that's what's happening. It reveals itself to be the case after one has self-reflected enough. 

Edited July 8 by Princess Arabia

[An young being]

31 minutes ago, Davino said:

Enjoy your meal, no need to share it, they may not like it. Truth is an acquired taste.

You can always share it here, most of the people here like it !

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is a lesson that is well deserving to be learnt. It will save the "savior" so much heart felt problems and let downs and disappointments. I had to learn the hard way. Had to go through it first to see the lesson/value in leaving things be. I still have remnants of it, but not as much as before. 

Yes, I've also had to learn it the hard way.

I'm sure this is very common.