How does materialism demystify reality?

[JoshB]

Whenever i explain Awakening to a scientific/rational person it is immediately shut down. And they can't even just conceptually open their mind to infinite conciousness being a possibility. And then further more I am demonized when i was trying to guide them to awakening. I'm sure many of you have struggled with this demonizing of the messenger.

I would love to understand how people demystify reality, because 99% of the people you meet are materialists. So I can further understand them and deepen my love for them. And get into less debate 

Edited July 7, 2024 by JoshB
Forgot word

[Evelyna]

@JoshB Not everyone will be willing to accept your point of view, it doenst mean they are stupid or less then you, I understand it as everyone has a different journey they are on, you for example chose to explore spirituality and possibilities of consciousness and beyond, your scientific oriented friends chose a different path the one of science or a different way of thinking, I choose to integrate all possibillities and shift in and out of different ''realities' ( here I mean scientiffic, spiritual, objective , subjective and so on) depending on what's needed in the given moment for me. You could assume that your point of view isn't everyones point of view and some people just won't be convinced of it and that is fine. You could choose different topics to talk about or even explore their view of reality, you dont have to agree with it or argue it is not true, understanding that truth might be different to different people and acceptance of it can help you be more loving towards them. You can always find people with similar views to talk about spirituality like here on this forum. Acceptance is what I would work on if I were you, what you will choose to do is up to you. 

Many years ago I struggled with this one myself until I realised that they get so angry when I try to '' help '' them understand ( and only I thought I was helping ) because my so called help possibly interrupts with their path. I understood I can't help everyone and it is not my job to do so, not always anyway , sometimes  I mentioned spirituality to a person who never thought of it before and it prompted a new thought and presented a new point of view which they accepted, which meant to me I showed up at the right point of their journey to help them along a little. Demonizing would instantly indicate to me that they are just not ready for this part of the journey yet and I would not mention it again around them.this worked for me so far.  

 

Edited July 7, 2024 by Evelyna

[Javfly33]

until they don´t have a direct grasp beyond psychological mind-ideas, is difficult for them to open their minds. 

In fact the funny thing is that mind can not ever be open. You can not open something that only can think about data and thoughts, is limited by its own nature. 

Only when they taste something beyond mind they will understand. But by that time they won´t need any explanation from you Lol. 

Edited July 7, 2024 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

No one cares about reality. They are just using reality to survive, like monkeys.

Your mistake is assuming that people care. Even scientists and philosophers don't really care.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@JoshB I’ve decided to not speak about it in general to others. Even those who are spiritual. Eventually from Actualized you may reach a point where there is simply no one who can understand you.

[Sugarcoat]

I feel like everyone has some sense of mystery about reality, a materialist might find scientific discovery mystical for example or feel mystical about what exists in space and the structure of reality etc but they are still attached to the scientific paradigm so they believe all the mystery fits into the scientific model and that science will explain it so their view is limited in that regard. But they still have their own sense of mysticism . 

a spiritual person could be equally as close minded and stuck in paradigm as a scientific person but I’d say it seems in general spiritual people are a bit more open minded I’m not sure tho

Edited July 7, 2024 by Sugarcoat

[Ishanga]

I agree, most ppl today are just living at various levels of Survival or Accumulating more of whatever their currency is, be it more Ppl in their lives, Experiences, Power, Money, Success, on and on, if You want more of it, then Your still in Survival Awareness because Your searching outside for Inner Fulfilment or Completeness of sorts, most ppl are on this path, and are Unaware that there is another way to Live..

Rather than trying to convince anyone of anything, we've all tried I bet lol, just be the Example, Be the Light, the Awareness, the Bliss, the Completeness, the Spirit, then ppl will notice as they won't be able to miss It!

[UnbornTao]

Presumption and arrogance, mainly. It's much easier to take up the first story you're told or one you've come up with. In a sense, everyone is guilty of this to a degree. That is, until we start to seriously contemplate subjects we assumed to have known up until that point. The difference is that a minority wants to know while most people choose to remain ignorant--by taking tons of stuff completely for granted.

I wonder whether the words ignore-ance and arrog-ance share etymological roots.

Edited July 8, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

Most serious scientists with deep knowledge of reality accept a mystical approach.

[Ropuch7]

 

[What Am I]

Since I've been into these topics for quite a while from the time I was young, I've had to create like two separate versions of myself. In one of them, I live and work in the professional world and I have to present myself as such, which includes not discussing "impossible" scenarios involving the fact that we're all actually a singular omnipotent being which our individual expressions are capable of realizing by means of meditation and/or chemical assistance. In the other version of myself, I understand that's exactly the case lol.

I remember when I first became aware, I felt the strong need to spread the word. But then I quickly realized how wrong that can go, so I created this split in myself. Though after all this time, and watching ignorance continue to grow and the world become increasingly unbalanced, I can't say with certainty what the right choice would be in terms of whether to communicate it to others. If you're pretty advanced in your understanding and you're tactful in your speech, perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world to tip the scales in others towards understanding the actual state of things. But if you're clumsy and blunt, and you barely have a grasp on the situation as it is, then most things relating to spirituality may be better left unsaid.

[What Am I]

@Ropuch7 LMAO it do be like that sometimes.

[Princess Arabia]

Nothing wrong with people not caring. Not everybody loves dumplings and bananas. I used to be like that till I realized most people don't care. It's just not their time.

[What Am I]

If the main question of the thread is asking "How will the rest of the world, including the rational and scientific community as a whole, become aware of a spiritual reality?", it will take more than a few descriptions of your inner subjective experience. I can't imagine that'll ever be convincing, no matter how detailed and poetic the description.

Strong objective evidence of something way outside the accepted norm, and which has an obvious and reproducible impact on the physical world, needs to be presented to start shifting perspectives. That could come in a large number of forms. People seem to forget, but there's an infinite range of subtle spiritual phenomena between the gross and the causal.

The main theme of this story of life is "God", but at the same time "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." I think it's very easy to get tunnel vision on the God aspect, which I admit isn't the worst thing on which to get tunnel vision. It's just that as an individual expression of God, you're left relatively incomplete and with blind spots.

Edited July 8, 2024 by What Am I

[Hojo]

@JoshB No one has any idea what we are talking about. Even if you look at this forum a forum specifically designed to talk about God there are 50 people on the entire planet who are talking about it. This is the number 1 God forum on the internet and there are like 50 people that i see repeatedly talking. Its too scary for normal people and even scary for us but we must surrender to fear we see that. If you give a normal person a tiny bit of existential reality they will take it as scary and they dont realize they are creating that fear they think its coming from you and they think you are scary and dont like you.

I had death anxiety for 30 years and I tried to talk about it with people to help me come to terms with it but it scares everyone so much that they refuse to think let alone talk about it. And thats just fear of death which they know is real talking about God is insanity to them.

Gods fear of being alone is inside all of us. Look at reality look how big this fear is. The only reason anything exists is cause God needs to sleep waking up is being done with that.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Hojo

[What Am I]

34 minutes ago, Hojo said:

No one has any idea what we are talking about. Even if you look at this forum a forum specifically designed to talk about God there are 50 people on the entire planet who are talking about it. This is the number 1 God forum on the internet and there are like 50 people that i see repeatedly talking.

Oh man, I assume you don't really think those on the forum are the only people who are aware of the true meaning of spiritual pursuits, but I'll take the opportunity to mention that we've merely stumbled into something much larger, of which I'm sure many others on earth are aware. The perennial philosophy goes back as far as recorded human history, and it likely goes back much further than that. The topic is esoteric, sure, but not quite that esoteric lol.

But if you're just saying you can't pick a random person on the street and expect them to know, then I'm with you there.

Edited July 7, 2024 by What Am I

[Hojo]

@What Am II have been on many forums about spirituality and God and the only other ones I have seen talking about conciousness and God are r/simulation theory and r/consciousness, maybe r/spirituality a bit. I have been banned from many for stating God is consciousness.  Of course there are way more people God realized than on this forum or the internet as a whole but just having 50 people on the more accurate representation of God shows you a little bit how small the amount is. these forums are the only real place to talk about it in real life you will be seen as weird.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Hojo

[What Am I]

8 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@What Am II have been on many forums about spirituality and God and the only other ones I have seen talking about conciousness and God are r/simulation theory and r/consciousness. I have been banned from many for stating God is consciousness.  Of course there are way more people God realized than on this forum or the internet as a whole but just having 50 people on the more accurate representation of God shows you a little bit how small the amount is. these forums are the only real place to talk about it in real life you will be seen as weird.

Well, you do make an argument based on some evidence, and I admit mine is based on the assumption that it simply can't be that rare, so who knows. Maybe the truth is somewhere between our assumptions.

I do know that it's only recently that I've first joined a forum to discuss it, and there were many years where I was fully aware of this stuff and kept it to myself. So I could see a sizable portion of people simply not wanting to expose themselves, or maybe not feeling like they have something to add to the conversation.

After thinking it over though, I agree it's an interesting data point that there's so few subreddits and not necessarily as many members here as you'd think, considering the billions of people on the planet.

[Hojo]

@What Am I it could be you could also have it happen to you and have not idea what the fuck just happened and get no answers. I could have also accidentally stumbled on leo on a rare chance as when I saw God I instantly knew it was God even tho I was an athiest and not seeking anything. 

then the next day after I calmed down mildly I look up the term God realization and leos video was the first thing I saw. His video was the first spiritual video I ever watched i didn't even know what it was so it was probably just a fluke or good intuition or good use of the internet.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Hojo

[Basman]

Highly material people tend to see reality as mechanical. If there something they don't understand its because they lack a piece of the puzzle. Its a highly logical worldview that is all about demystification. Its practical and useful but not spiritual which is what mysticism is about.

Don't throw pearls to swine. Especially if they didn't even ask for your opinion on reality. That is just kind of weird and autistic.