Stage Green excess.

[Danioover9000]

   When stage green becomes toxic:

 

   They are doing those eco activism wrong.

[Danioover9000]

 

[Danioover9000]

   How can some stage yellow thinking guy give these nuts the pass?!

 

 

[Alexop]

Bunch of hypocrites. They block the roads and shit, then they fly to Thailand with some fucking 4 jet engine 747, buy cheap stuff from Aliexpress, use oil based products etc.

Edited July 10 by Alexop

[Danioover9000]

@Alexop

13 minutes ago, Alexop said:

Bunch of hypocrites. They block the roads and shit, then they fly to Thailand with some fucking 4 jet engine 747.

   Now not all stage green is like this, for example the hippies, some new agers, even the more paranormal and supernatural believing groups tend to be more behaved than these activism types. It's just when it gets toxic, which IMO if you integrated stage blue/orange properly into you, you will be able to lead a group of stage orange/greens effectively. But when I see the Just Stop Oil leaders, I see cult leaders praying on some misguided and lost souls. I wish it wasn't this predictable to me but there you go.

   It's just a shame because these more toxic stage greens and their behavior is offending those that're more stage orange/blue, the people who are lesser in development and lower in the spiral, the people that'll need to develop up to stage green. But their behaviors will just scare them into being more stage orange/blue and feed into this demonization dynamic I see.

Edited July 10 by Danioover9000

[Alexop]

@Danioover9000 WIth this level of dogma and ideological behavior, I can't call them stage Green. Just because a stupid monkey tries to behave like a human does not make it a human. These extremists that insult people and block the roads are Blue.

[BlueOak]

Activism achieves nothing without overt display. It achieves little with overt display but something is better than nothing.

[BlueOak]

12 hours ago, Alexop said:

Bunch of hypocrites. They block the roads and shit, then they fly to Thailand with some fucking 4 jet engine 747, buy cheap stuff from Aliexpress, use oil based products etc.

This argument is flawed but also pushes people into yellow thinking so it is necessary.

People live in an imperfect world. It is a fantasy to think they can operate otherwise for them and for you. This gradually means people try to operate within the world rather than outside of it, but they will still be flying the 747's, and most people will understandably still lack the conviction to completely bypass Amazon for example. However it will increase their effectiveness when they work within the world rather than outside of it.

[Rafael Thundercat]

14 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Alexop

    But their behaviors will just scare them into being more stage orange/blue and feed into this demonization dynamic I see.

So in the end the protest end up no being effective

[enchanted]

@Danioover9000are you criticizing stage green from above or below?

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

 

[Alexop]

10 hours ago, BlueOak said:

This argument is flawed but also pushes people into yellow thinking so it is necessary.

People live in an imperfect world. It is a fantasy to think they can operate otherwise for them and for you. This gradually means people try to operate within the world rather than outside of it, but they will still be flying the 747's, and most people will understandably still lack the conviction to completely bypass Amazon for example. However it will increase their effectiveness when they work within the world rather than outside of it.

it can be flawed if we think that we should do nothing because we are also a part of the problem. I also fly and so on and at the same time are argue against flying so often. It is when you go to extremes and block the roads that this argument shows your hypocrisy. You should not stop people from going to work and feeding their children, not even if you trevel by bicycle everywhere and eat grass all day.

[Danioover9000]

@Rafael Thundercat

8 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

So in the end the protest end up no being effective

   Given how the leaders led the Just Stop Oil, most likely. They are getting heat and hated on by the general public for them disrupting traffic and public services, even going so far as damaging cultural icons and sights, that's mean, but when they block public roads the working class can turn on Just Stop Oil especially when the public service is most needed, when ambulances need to save a life yet a bunch of Just Stop Oil blocks them, when a parent has to rush his pregnant wife to hospital when a bunch of Just Stop Oil blocking the road, when you are fired because you're late because Just Stop Oil blocked the road. I can see why some people really want to run Just Stop Oil people over the road. I can see why most would hate them for that.

[Danioover9000]

@enchanted

5 hours ago, enchanted said:

@Danioover9000are you criticizing stage green from above or below?

   No, I am criticizing them up on high, with my thumbs pressing down on the D-pad hoping these groups just respond to the buttons I keep pressing!

[mrPixel]

The problem I see with green is that they tend to lead with emotion rather than rational thought and have a tendency to ignore facts. This, as mentioned already, renders them ineffective. This is of course a generalization but I now live in Portland OR and these types drive me fucking nuts. That said, I’d rather live in a city with a bunch of far lefties rather than a bunch of conservatives. 

[integral]

Most of these guys have green values but operate mostly from lower impulsive red. I think Ken Wilber had it wrong it’s not that red joins green in many of these protests (Creating violence) it’s that green is a diverse enough stage where you can have green values without higher order brain function that derived those green values. Plenty of Gen X and gen Z kids are at stage green (lgbt) but operate heavily within the lower impulsive brain and will fluctuate too much lower stages depending on the topic and depending on their state of mind/mood.

To be able to hold a fourth, fifth and sixth person perspective takes higher order brain function, but people easily fluctuate between lower mid and high order brain function all the time.

Edited July 12 by integral

[BlueOak]

12 hours ago, Alexop said:

it can be flawed if we think that we should do nothing because we are also a part of the problem. I also fly and so on and at the same time are argue against flying so often. It is when you go to extremes and block the roads that this argument shows your hypocrisy. You should not stop people from going to work and feeding their children, not even if you trevel by bicycle everywhere and eat grass all day.

Part of Stage Green you would benefit from integrating is: Inconveniencing people is a requirement for change. Moreover, the green part of me would say that sometimes you have to break things to set them correctly, which will inconvenience people. 

Sorry to be direct with an ego shot. I could talk around the subject, but it's easier this way.

Yes, just breaking things or causing a scene with no plan is simple and dumb, but it's a requirement of the process, and to remind people or focus them. Obviously, these people have no plan past that, and we can all highlight the flaw in that thinking.

Nothing ever shifts much without some inconvenience, and we can be strategic and pick and choose. Also, you'll notice if people don't see something demonstrable then they don't remember it happened. People can, for example, bring what Trump or Biden did in a list all they like, but others won't remember a list, they'll remember a gesture.

Edited July 12 by BlueOak

[Danioover9000]

@integral

12 hours ago, integral said:

Most of these guys have green values but operate mostly from lower impulsive red. I think Ken Wilber had it wrong it’s not that red joins green in many of these protests (Creating violence) it’s that green is a diverse enough stage where you can have green values without higher order brain function that derived those green values. Plenty of Gen X and gen Z kids are at stage green (lgbt) but operate heavily within the lower impulsive brain and will fluctuate too much lower stages depending on the topic and depending on their state of mind/mood.

To be able to hold a fourth, fifth and sixth person perspective takes higher order brain function, but people easily fluctuate between lower mid and high order brain function all the time.

   I noticed that after @Leo Gura did his Spiral Dynamics series we've been labeling these more stage green toxic types as excess stage greens, but before that Spiral Dynamics series I think you and I and few other users here would be calling them crazy, deluded, insane, lunatics, ECT. And we'd likely be advocated to send these types to the mental hospitals.

[Alexop]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:00 AM, integral said:

Most of these guys have green values but operate mostly from lower impulsive red. I think Ken Wilber had it wrong it’s not that red joins green in many of these protests (Creating violence) it’s that green is a diverse enough stage where you can have green values without higher order brain function that derived those green values. Plenty of Gen X and gen Z kids are at stage green (lgbt) but operate heavily within the lower impulsive brain and will fluctuate too much lower stages depending on the topic and depending on their state of mind/mood.

To be able to hold a fourth, fifth and sixth person perspective takes higher order brain function, but people easily fluctuate between lower mid and high order brain function all the time.

Exactly! Just because you get brainwashed into a meme does not mean you have the maturity and cogdev to fully embody it and act balanced from it. It is sad to see so many broken kids because they cannot operate from the meme they got brainwashed into. It is like installing Windows 10 on a Pentium 3. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@integral

On 2024-07-12 at 2:00 AM, integral said:

Most of these guys have green values but operate mostly from lower impulsive red. I think Ken Wilber had it wrong it’s not that red joins green in many of these protests (Creating violence) it’s that green is a diverse enough stage where you can have green values without higher order brain function that derived those green values. Plenty of Gen X and gen Z kids are at stage green (lgbt) but operate heavily within the lower impulsive brain and will fluctuate too much lower stages depending on the topic and depending on their state of mind/mood.

To be able to hold a fourth, fifth and sixth person perspective takes higher order brain function, but people easily fluctuate between lower mid and high order brain function all the time.

   I would agree, and maybe Ken Wilbur didn't explain it clearly, but I think he was right in moments when stage red can join up to stage green and misuse and manipulate pure stage greens for their heart bias and humanitarian bias. Like how do you explain events like Charles Manson and how he formed his cult movement? Or how about when Osho started in Oregon county and became more popular there? And few more examples I could list of when stage red was influencing stage greens.