Spiritual Gain Is No Different Than Material Gain.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

Your argument hinges on the notion that both paths are fundamentally the same because they use thought to achieve a desired feeling. This overlooks the qualitative difference between the transient happiness from material gains and the enduring peace from spiritual realization.

The paths are not the same, the outcome is. The thought is what ignited the desire, but the achievement is what gave the desired feeling. You have assumed that spirituality gives enduring peace to everyone and that material gain is always transient. I can also say that providing one can afford to keep getting the materialistic gain they so desire after each initial satisfaction has subsided, they can forever hold that in place also, with maybe only a short span of life's turmoils inbetween and that the peace that comes with spirituality can fluctuate back and forth where one has to keep meditating or whatever they do to keep it in place. You're still not, imo, showing me any differences, only a few that can vary from individual to individual. 

I don't see, for instance most people on this spiritual forum and even those who do continuous spiritual practices showing signs of lasting contentment and peace. How is one having to do the same practices over and over and over to maintain that peace, lasting peace. No, it's contingent upon keeping those practices afloat. That's not the same as lasting peace.

Edited July 5 by Princess Arabia

[Carl-Richard]

The point you're trying to make: desire is desire, whether it's for spirituality or materialism.

The equivocation you're trying to avoid: there is no difference between spirituality and materialism.

Edited July 5 by Carl-Richard

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

@Princess Arabia spiritual goal is killing the self.

Material goal is gaining of selfs. 

Completely opposite. 

Makes no sense. If spiritual goal is to kill the self then what is being used to kill the self. Gaining of a self that is already there to accomplish that material goal is also nonsensical. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The equivocation you're trying to avoid: there is no difference between spirituality and materialism.

I'm not understanding why you say "trying to avoid" when that's precisely what i'm saying.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, James123 said:

Hahahahahahhaahhahaha. Take some Pychedelics and see for yourself. 

Making my point again. Spiritual people laugh at others who don't engage in their practices and claim that only certain things can reveal certain things. You guys aren't event realizing how you're making my point even more. Precisely one of the reasons why I even decided to make this post. Keep them coming. Let it reveal itself.

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I'm not understanding why you say "trying to avoid" when that's precisely what i'm saying.

Because you're caveating by saying it's the "feeling" that is the same.

Edited July 5 by Carl-Richard

[Ishanga]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The paths are not the same, the outcome is. The thought is what ignited the desire, but the achievement is what gave the desired feeling. You have assumed that spirituality gives enduring peace to everyone and that material gain is always transient. I can also say that providing one can afford to keep getting the materialistic gain they so desire after each initial satisfaction has subsided, they can forever hold that in place also, with maybe only a short span of life's turmoils inbetween and that the peace that comes with spirituality can fluctuate back and forth where one has to keep meditating or whatever they do to keep it in place. You're still not, imo, showing me any differences, only a few that can vary from individual to individual. 

I don't see, for instance most people on this spiritual forum and even those who do continuous spiritual practices showing signs of lasting contentment and peace. How is one having to do the same practices over and over and over to maintain that peace, lasting peace. No, it's contingent upon keeping those practices afloat. That's not the same as lasting peace.

Thought does not create Desire, a Baby has no Thought, but it has Desire, Your Lungs have no Thought, but it has a Desire, same with all parts of a Human or any Life form, they all have a basic type of Desire running thru them, give me an example I will show You where the Desire is, its everywhere on most every level, other than the Absolute, which contains all Potential and Possibility, only via Desire does any of that Potential and Possibility come to Fruition, that is why we are here on some level of Existence to play with it in our Limited material Dual Way.

It seems many Non Dualists, and such, Absolutist and Denialist I would label them, only looking at the most Subtle aspects of Life alone, ignoring the other parts, You will deny that You are doing this but all Your post are About This, so unless there is deception, then I would say this is not Perceiving or Understanding the WHOLE picture, which is what Enlightenment is About, Perceiving Reality as it is, from its Grossest to most Subtle realms, while here in our Embodied forms..

Edited July 5 by Ishanga

[James123]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Making my point again. Spiritual people laugh at others who don't engage in their practices and claim that only certain things can reveal certain things. You guys aren't event realizing how you're making my point even more. Precisely one of the reasons why I even decided to make this post. Keep them coming. Let it reveal itself.

I am telling for your own goodness believe me. Take some, consume some. And come back laugh this thread. I immediately realize when I read this thread, forget even enlightenment, even you never had a pychedelic experience whatsoever. 

Walking the path and knowing the path is completely different. 

You just know it, reading it, analyzing it, but never went through directly what you read of. But what you know of will it reveal itself when you consume Pychedelics. Believe me. Entire new path is waiting for you. 

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

I am telling for your own goodness believe me. Take some, consume some. And come back laugh this thread. I immediately realize when I read this thread, forget even enlightenment, even you never had a pychedelic experience whatsoever. 

Walking the path and knowing the path is completely different. 

You just know it, reading it, analyzing it, but never went through directly what you read of. But what you know of will it reveal itself when you consume Pychedelics. Believe me. Entire new path is waiting for you. 

I don't doubt that, but what you're missing is that this is Absolute; and in the experience there are many paths that one can take to experience whatever, You're stuck on one path and that's because your limited mind cannot imagine any other. It's like the mansion owner telling the rancher that he's missing out on a bigger house and that once he's had the experience of a bigger house, he wouldn't want to go back.

You have also made assumptions that all I've done is "know", "analyze" and "read". What gave you that authority to know what I've done or not done, experienced or not experienced. Nothing other than an assumption. Psychedelics i can give you that because I've revealed I haven't done them, but you've assumed everything else. Another presumptive action on your part by saying what you've said without proof.

 

Edited July 5 by Princess Arabia

[James123]

@Princess Arabia I never knew before you never use pychedelics. I just understood when I read your thread, that's all. 

[Princess Arabia]

26 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Thought does not create Desire, a Baby has no Thought, but it has Desire,

Yes it does, and a baby does not have desires at an early age. It's body is responding to a certain need. The baby is not desiring it's body is responding to stimulii and is functioning on instinct.

I will not address your other responses because I refuse to make excuses for why I posts certain things and needing to give reasons and excuses on a spirituality forum about making posts about spirituality. If I am on a certain train that's not going to where you're headed, there's no need to critique the train I'm on. I'm being respectful in my posts and if youre not agreeing there's no need to say "that's all i post". What if I was to keep harping on you that all your posts are about Sadguru and that's all the videos you ever post. I mentioned it briefly a while back to you and left it alone because thats your prerogative. I shouldn't have to be censored with my views and takes on the matter of spirituality as long as I'm not being harmful or disrespecting anyone else's views. 

Another "making" my point matter. We tend to have to put other people down who isn't on the same path and with different views and keep referring to their views as a philosophy while theirs is the truth.

You guys are just making my point even more and FYI, I have not made a post as this one before and it's the first I've introduced this specific topic.

Edited July 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

20 minutes ago, James123 said:

@Princess Arabia I never knew before you never use pychedelics. I just understood when I read your thread, that's all. 

I don't need to be told what to take in order to achieve something and laughed at and ridiculed because I chose not to. A simple suggestion and leaving it at that will suffice instead of telling the person what you believe they have or have not done and how it's not enough to achieve what you believe I should achieve. I'm glad I made this post so maybe you guys can see how you're thinking your ways are better than another's and how it's still on a materialistic level and a competition to see who can have a better experience. 

Edited July 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

40 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

other than the Absolute,

It's all the Absolute.

[Princess Arabia]

52 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

It seems many Non Dualists, and such, Absolutist and Denialist I would label them, only looking at the most Subtle aspects of Life alone, ignoring the other parts, You will deny that You are doing this but all Your post are About This, so unless there is deception, then I would say this is not Perceiving or Understanding the WHOLE picture, which is what Enlightenment is About, Perceiving Reality as it is, from its Grossest to most Subtle realms, while here in our Embodied forms..

If you would like for me to make posts about my life what I'm going through, my problems, my living situation and how my love life is going I can do that too. I don't put myself into a category of non-dualist, Absolutist or Denialist. You have. You are also denying certain aspects too by critiquing what i'm posting. Nothing wrong with that, because I welcome critiques as I myself do engage in that, but not as a way of putting down one's style of communicating spirituality in how they chose. 

I'm not in denial of anything and like I said I can make posts about my personal life of which I do have other threads about stuff other than spirituality. This is just the section for this stuff. How am I denying anything just from making specific posts. That's not denial. How is my post even non-dual talk. I don't even get that. It's merely stating how spiritual gain and material gain have a similar outcome. If you don't agree, then you don't; no need to call me out on what "ist" you think I am and have categorized me to be.

Edited July 6 by Princess Arabia

[James123]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I don't need to be told what to take in order to achieve something and laughed at and ridiculed because I chose not to. A simple suggestion and leaving it at that will suffice instead of telling the person what you believe they have or have not done and how it's not enough to achieve what you believe I should achieve. I'm glad I made this post so maybe you guys can see how you're thinking your ways are better than another's and how it's still on a materialistic level and a competition to see who can have a better experience. 

I am sorry for the laugh. I didn't want to break your heart. Thank you. 

Peace!

[creativepursuit]

@Princess Arabia Like Leo said in one of his videos, 

"You are trying to grasp your hand from your hand"

 Why?

It's right there in front of you. 

[creativepursuit]

7 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

If spiritual goal is to kill the self then what is being used to kill the self

There's a difference between Chita and Chidabhasa (the reflected self). The reflected self need freedom from this world. And so, it pursues different spiritual paths.

The reflected self, "Chidabhasa," is nothing but Chita.

Snake is the appearance.

"of what?" you may ask.

The rope (Chita).

Your Chita is and has always been free.

[Salvijus]

Basically what you're saying is that all of humanity, knowingly or unknowingly, is seeking God. The ultimate feeling. 

That's good. Desire is not your enemy, desire is your savior. 

Edited July 6 by Salvijus

[Javfly33]

@Princess Arabia good observation.

You are lacking Though a certain important detail.

A proper spiritual path is designed to get you to the Infinite feeling. The Unlimited feeling.

Material achievements Will never provide you that. 

You can buy 1,2,10 o 100 cars. But It Will never be enough through material means. Because you can not buy Infinite Cars.

 

[Davino]

@Princess Arabia It is so.

Where is the problem?

I'm fine with what you explain, it's the mechanism of thought and desire.