Spiritual Gain Is No Different Than Material Gain.

[Keryo Koffa]

@Princess Arabia Hmm, we do seek the feeling, though Spirituality might also seek to understand more directly what it is and how to reach it, it's goal is to become more aware. But Spirituality comes in various forms and even through Materialism, we can experience the feeling, though we may lack the understanding that it is in fact a feeling that we seek and might confuse the objects we identify as the means of reaching it to be innately inseparable from the feeling itself.

To me, it's like peeling back layers of the onion but of course each is made of onion. In a way I would say, Materialism is a part of Spirituality, its most outer layer, feelings here are realized the same way as on any other layer, since it's all the same onion, but Spirituality seeks to remove resistance and get to the source to make the process of chasing emotions itself more pleasant and direct. Though there's no objective reason not to find fulfillment in Materialism and ultimately life is an exploratory process of experiencing, no matter which layer.

[Davino]

@Keryo Koffa Yes, I agree. 

She says that the mechanism is the same, which is true. 

A knife can prepare you dinner or kill your mother.

[Keryo Koffa]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

She says that the mechanism is the same, which is true. A knife can prepare you dinner or kill your mother.

I agree, that is the extreme end of the dichotomy however and I think she is fed up with the act itself of seeing the world in black and white and demonizing or renouncing materialistic desires, instead of seeing them more holistically and exploring the material world more open-heartedly.

When conscious, you can experience and enjoy material experience for what it is without falling into the need for endless expansion of the same phenomena, you can enjoy buying and driving a car being fully aware that such an experience is available to different degrees and different extents, but without the compulsive need to experience an ever growing quantitative difference.

Though I would describe this awareness as a spiritual process itself, as many fall into neurotic chasing. The same trap does exists with spiritual pursuits however and creating a spiritual ego, though ideally it would lead one to be more aware and holistic. In a way, we can chase an endless expansion of states of consciousness and enjoyment can be found and experienced anywhere. The material world after all is a reflection of the immaterial and part of it.

[gettoefl]

there are 3 things you can do in life, big up the ego play down the ego and let be the ego

first is materialism, second is spirituality, third is the way

[Thought Art]

I think spiritual gain could be seen as the opposite of material gain

[Princess Arabia]

10 hours ago, creativepursuit said:

@Princess Arabia Like Leo said in one of his videos, 

"You are trying to grasp your hand from your hand"

 Why?

It's right there in front of you. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Basically what you're saying is that all of humanity, knowingly or unknowingly, is seeking God. The ultimate feeling. 

That's good. Desire is not your enemy, desire is your savior. 

Desire is not the enemy, we all have it yes. Never said otherwise.

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Princess Arabia good observation.

You are lacking Though a certain important detail.

A proper spiritual path is designed to get you to the Infinite feeling. The Unlimited feeling.

Material achievements Will never provide you that. 

You can buy 1,2,10 o 100 cars. But It Will never be enough through material means. Because you can not buy Infinite Cars.

 

Point taken.

[Inliytened1]

19 hours ago, bambi said:

While your perspective on the nature of desires and feelings has some merit, it appears to lack a deeper understanding of the fundamental distinctions between material pursuits and spiritual practice. Allow me to gently enlighten you.

You assert that both materialistic and spiritual desires are merely tools used to achieve a better feeling, implying that they are fundamentally the same. However, this view oversimplifies the profound differences in intent, process, and ultimate outcomes of these pursuits.

The quest for material goods is often rooted in the ego, driven by societal conditioning and external validation. People seek cars, houses, or relationships to bolster their self-image or gain social status. These desires are inherently transient and superficial, tied to the impermanent and often illusory nature of worldly satisfaction.

In contrast, genuine spiritual practice aims to transcend the ego and uncover the deeper truths of existence. It's not merely about feeling better but about achieving a state of inner peace, clarity, and liberation from the cycles of desire and aversion. Spiritual seekers aim to understand the nature of the mind and reality itself, moving beyond the fleeting pleasure of sensory experiences.

Material pursuits are typically linear and finite. You set a goal, work towards it, and either achieve it or move on to the next desire. The satisfaction derived from these accomplishments is usually short-lived, as you've aptly noted.

Spiritual practice, on the other hand, is an ongoing journey of self-discovery and inner transformation. It's a process of shedding layers of ignorance and conditioning, which involves practices like meditation, mindfulness, and ethical living. These practices cultivate a stable, enduring sense of contentment and equanimity that is not dependent on external circumstances.

The fulfillment of material desires often leads to a perpetual cycle of seeking, as each attainment leaves you wanting more, never truly satisfying the deeper yearning for lasting happiness.

Spiritual practice, however, aims at breaking this cycle. The ultimate goal is not another transient feeling but a profound shift in consciousness. When one realizes the nature of the mind and attains enlightenment, the endless quest for external validation and pleasure ceases. One experiences a lasting sense of peace and fulfillment that is not contingent on external conditions.

To compare the desire for a hot car with the desire for spiritual enlightenment is to misunderstand the essence of the spiritual path. True spiritual seekers do not engage in practice to achieve fleeting feelings of joy or peace but to uncover the very root of suffering and transcend it. The feeling of serenity you mention is not the end goal but a byproduct of a much deeper realization.

Your argument hinges on the notion that both paths are fundamentally the same because they use thought to achieve a desired feeling. This overlooks the qualitative difference between the transient happiness from material gains and the enduring peace from spiritual realization. The mind's trickery, as you put it, is precisely what spiritual practice seeks to unravel, revealing the mind's true nature and freeing one from its deceptions.

In summary, while it is true that both material and spiritual pursuits can involve seeking and the use of thought, their intents, processes, and ultimate outcomes are vastly different. Understanding these distinctions is crucial for appreciating the profound depth of the spiritual journey. Perhaps, with a bit more reflection and deeper inquiry, you too might come to see beyond the superficial similarities and grasp the true essence of spiritual practice.

Just curious but how much of this post was your own writing and how much of it was AI?  If it was all you then we'll done, it's a very nuanced response..but seems like a response AI would provide with a touch of your own words thrown in.

[Princess Arabia]

8 hours ago, Davino said:

@Princess Arabia It is so.

Where is the problem?

I'm fine with what you explain, it's the mechanism of thought and desire. 

Never said there was a problem. Just pointing something out.

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@Princess Arabia Hmm, we do seek the feeling, though Spirituality might also seek to understand more directly what it is and how to reach it, it's goal is to become more aware. But Spirituality comes in various forms and even through Materialism, we can experience the feeling, though we may lack the understanding that it is in fact a feeling that we seek and might confuse the objects we identify as the means of reaching it to be innately inseparable from the feeling itself.

To me, it's like peeling back layers of the onion but of course each is made of onion. In a way I would say, Materialism is a part of Spirituality, its most outer layer, feelings here are realized the same way as on any other layer, since it's all the same onion, but Spirituality seeks to remove resistance and get to the source to make the process of chasing emotions itself more pleasant and direct. Though there's no objective reason not to find fulfillment in Materialism and ultimately life is an exploratory process of experiencing, no matter which layer.

Good points.

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

When conscious, you can experience and enjoy material experience for what it is without falling into the need for endless expansion of the same phenomena, you can enjoy buying and driving a car being fully aware that such an experience is available to different degrees and different extents, but without the compulsive need to experience an ever growing quantitative difference.

This is a good point. I think some people who are not into spirituality, or conscious as you put it, can still enjoy the material for what they are also. There are people like that who don't worship their material gains and see them for what they are. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Desire is not the enemy, we all have it yes. Never said otherwise.

That's not the important point. The important to recognize is that desire is the path to God. 

[Keryo Koffa]

Just now, Salvijus said:

That's not the important point. The important to recognize is that desire is the path to God. 

Furthermore, it is to realize that any impulse we feel is a pointer.

We can grow addicted to circumstances or emotions themselves and try to mechanically recreate them but they are inherently pointers to navigate and explore the nature of experience.

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Just curious but how much of this post was your own writing and how much of it was AI?  If it was all you then we'll done, it's a very nuanced response..but seems like a response AI would provide with a touch of your own words thrown in.

100% AI genereated

 

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

100% AI genereated

Thank you for disclosing

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, bambi said:

100% AI genereated

 

yours was a more likely candidate truth be told

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

Thank you for disclosing

Oh I very rarely post any of my own writings over 200characters

[bambi]

Just now, gettoefl said:

yours was a more likely candidate truth be told

Yeh it was an accurate analysis, Arabia is a thick walnut to crack and shine some light inside, hoped the AI could get through

[gettoefl]

40 minutes ago, bambi said:

Yeh it was an accurate analysis, Arabia is a thick walnut to crack and shine some light inside, hoped the AI could get through

hers was from the heart, better to disclose when you use AI