How to ACTUALLY and permanently change your mind

[An young being]

12 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

emotion of anger and a reaction to it are two different things I think. When you see someone being hurt emotion of anger will arise because of the love and empathy you have , anger itself won’t have any repercussions unless you make a decision on how you react while feeling the emotion. And so i can determine that anger not always arises from ego or selfishness but sometimes from love and compassion following that I think anger is just an emotion that can be felt but not reacted to I can observe it , learn from it and use it to help me understand more of myself and others. 
 

Maybe you're right. As I told earlier, I'm not an expert in being present, but

 

14 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

I’m not sure how I wrote this in to your response 😂 and not below it. 

Atleast you had a laugh due to the bug

14 minutes ago, mmKay said:

@Evelyna

just being present allows you to notice and feel. It doesnt adress the root causes, and if thats your main tool,  you will keep experiencing these negative emotions over and over .If you have trauma, fears, phobias , etc, being present will only do so much. In practice, you can be present and still get triggered inmensely. This is not theory, you can see this for yourself. Also being fully present during challenging emotional situations is unrealistic. Some emotions are so strong they will sweep you off of your feet and leave you curled into a ball.

This is the Personal Development subforum and there is too much woo-woo in this thread, no offense

Mindfulness requires effort and constant practice from our end, ideally all the time in the day. it doesn't mean simply being present, it means concentrating on what's happening in the present. I agree that those who have traumas, fears etc. will have difficulty in fully concentrating on the present. I don't ask you to see  mindfulness as a solution to all our problems, what I suggest you to see is that it's a tool more powerful than most of us imagine it to be.

I can also counter your argument of introspection being a superior tool. Many aren't intelligent enough to introspect.

[Evelyna]

@An young being mindfulness is absolutely a tool and a very very useful one I agree with this 100% you have also touched upon attention, in your words “concentrating on the present” . Energy flows where our attention goes. In other words the results you get will depend on where your attention is, what you focus on. 

Edited July 5 by Evelyna

[An young being]

12 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

@An young being mindfulness is absolutely a tool and a very very useful one I agree with this 100% you have also touched upon attention, in your words “concentrating on the present” . Energy flows where our attention goes. In other words the results you get will depend on where your attention is, what you focus on. 

Agree!

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxEFm0TxiuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CidDVoHdmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqANXVTLN4

http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html

[Stardream]

Ultimately any changes to the mind are the responsibility of the higher self. If you want to change, but your soul has no problem with your situation, nothing will happen. There are also lessons and stuff which could incur a response, then its a matter of your mental body.

You can create new pathways etc, cbt on yourself works well, nlp, hypnosis. A combination of the latter two with psychological theory and esoterics I believe to be theoretically the most powerful tools we have ( on a humanity level ).

Meditation also works on all bodies, but its usually for most people, a process. That process though will bring about change, it has to because the higher your consciousness, the quicker you process energies and information, so the more 'stuff' you go through, those experiences inner and outer, are the catalyst for change. But this kind of change is not always how you expect it.

[enchanted]

Thoughts are habits. Change them like any habit or addiction. Slowly and deliberately at first.

Edited July 18 by enchanted

[Sine]

If you're looking for short-term interventions, then CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) would be helpful. However, if your need is more about ongoing skill-building and changing how you perceive and manage complex emotional experiences in the long run, then you might find DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) more useful. It's easy to teach yourself through books and self-practice with work-sheets and so on. It incorporates elements inspired by Eastern philosophy, such as mindfulness, so meditation can also be part of it. 

Essentially, CBT focuses on changing "negative" thoughts and emotions, which is great, but it can sometimes feel a bit robotic (in my opinion). DBT, which is derived from CBT, takes it a step further. You are encouraged to fully experience your emotions and thoughts. Mindfulness and self-compassion are key-components. From this foundation, you can investigate the thought processes that lead to unwanted behaviors and then cope in a healthy way or change direction - providing a more comprehensive toolkit for managing complex emotional experiences in the moment. 

Study comparing DBT to CBT to treat PTSD: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32697288/

Study using DBT to help people deal with chronic pain (it's not finished yet, the results will be out soon): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37285187/

DBT books: 

The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook – Matthew McKay, Jeffrey C. Wood, and Jeffrey Brantley

DBT Made Simple: A Step-by-Step Guide to Dialectical Behavior Therapy – Sheri Van Dijk

DBT Skills Training Manual, Marsha M. (University of Washington Linehan, Marsha M. (University of Washington (Emeritus) Linehan

[Joshe]

Thanks everybody. I really appreciate all your responses and will consider each of them.

While going over them briefly, I realized if I want to have more say so over what goes on in this mind, I'll need a much more targeted approach than what I originally had in mind. 

@Sine Thank you for the info on DBT. Never heard of it before. 

 

 

[Staples]

Constant attention and conciousness. Habits and patterns are just what you do when you're unconcious and on autopilot. 

So in order to change that, you have to work very hard to not default to automatic behaviour. 

It's like being conscious of your own breathing, it becomes a manual process if you put your awareness on it. So whatever you want to change, you need to constantly be aware of at all times. 

Some people call this 'law of attraction', when it's really just deep behavioural change.

Psychedelics do not help with this. They can reveal new possibilities to you, but you must put those possibilities into practice with sober conciousness to really reprogram yourself.

[Joshe]

10 hours ago, Staples said:

Constant attention and conciousness. Habits and patterns are just what you do when you're unconcious and on autopilot. 

So in order to change that, you have to work very hard to not default to automatic behaviour. 

It's like being conscious of your own breathing, it becomes a manual process if you put your awareness on it. So whatever you want to change, you need to constantly be aware of at all times. 

Some people call this 'law of attraction', when it's really just deep behavioural change.

Psychedelics do not help with this. They can reveal new possibilities to you, but you must put those possibilities into practice with sober conciousness to really reprogram yourself.

 Yeah, this is the understanding I’ve come to as well. Thank you!

[Lyubov]

I permanently changed my mind using self inquiry, allowing myself to mature and aligning myself with spirituality / truth. Yes, it is possible to resolve every single issue you have, take responsiblity for your life and create what you desire. 

[Lyubov]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:56 AM, Joshe said:

I’m curious if anyone has successfully and intentionally used meditation for removing useless/toxic and unconscious mind programs/mentations/thought patterns and either swapping them out for upgrades, aka, recontextualize/reframe, or just allowing empty space to be in their place. I’m sure the answer is yes but I’m interested in the amount of effort that went into it and the degree of success attained and if it persisted or is it something like AA where you have to daily maintain your success. 

I guess I’m asking, what does it take to truly change how the psyche operates. 

Apparently, Leo is coming out with a new course that seems to basically be about actually changing the way the mind behaves and perceives, so that will be interesting, but I’m interested in the amount of effort those with success have put in and the degree of success they were able to attain. I ask because if I have to invest 1 hour a day for a year and I only get 10% of my desired result, I might consider passing on meditation. 

I have a feeling that self-guided CBT/cognitive behavioral therapy would have a greater and faster impact on my goals and would save me a ton of time and effort but I’m not sure. I intuit the two practices would be synergistic and that’s probably the best course of action, but I’m curious if anyone has actually had any success or even failures in this sort of endeavor and would like to share their experience.  

Thank you! 

you don't need to do too much swapping out. what if your mind naturally heals like a physical cut omn your body if you know how to remove what is impeding this natural development? Does a seed have to consciously swap out stuff to grow into a tree? I believe a human life in many ways is like a seed turning into the tree. You have to water yourself, plant yourself in the right place, take care of yourself, etc. But you din't have to do too much in terms of engineering yourself. If anything you need to reverse engineer all the beliefs that are limiting you from childhood. 

what does it take to truly change how the psyche operates? Realizing you are the creator, not a victim. This is crucial. You have to realize you are not a victim, you are responsible for your life, you are at the center, not the affect. You need to align with your true value and know aligning with this guides you. 

[Joshe]

12 hours ago, Lyubov said:

what does it take to truly change how the psyche operates? Realizing you are the creator

I really appreciate your comments.

For the past several days the theme that "I am the creator" has been powerful and I've had a major shift in awareness around this. The first few days I was just exploring the power that was accessible and then I started to imagine the possibilities of such power and now I'm seeing the implications of those possibilities manifested, which are having significant impact.

After I saw the degree of control I have, I was eventually able to finally see the vague, nebulous future I've been telling myself I wanted, as well as the path to that future. I could see what it would take to become fearless, to become peaceful, or what it takes to do anything. I could see clearly how to get there and I could see how much time, resources, and dedication it would require to get there. 

Then I realized, I actually don't want some of these things. I don't even think I want "fearlessness". I have the power to have it if I want it but do I really want it? The desire for fearlessness is born of fear, but that didn't register to me when I was putting it on my self-actualization bucket list. It only occured to me after I sufficiently imagined acquiring and having it, which only happened because I realized I could have it.

But, we have to do something while we're here, so I'm not done with self-development or advancement, but it is interesting that when you know for sure you possess the power to become something, you might decide you don't actually want it after all, or at least, not as much.

This is mostly new territory for me so I'm sure my views will change. 

@Lyubov Would you mind sharing a little about your path? What pushed you to change and how did it happen?

[Lyubov]

7 hours ago, Joshe said:

I really appreciate your comments.

For the past several days the theme that "I am the creator" has been powerful and I've had a major shift in awareness around this. The first few days I was just exploring the power that was accessible and then I started to imagine the possibilities of such power and now I'm seeing the implications of those possibilities manifested, which are having significant impact.

After I saw the degree of control I have, I was eventually able to finally see the vague, nebulous future I've been telling myself I wanted, as well as the path to that future. I could see what it would take to become fearless, to become peaceful, or what it takes to do anything. I could see clearly how to get there and I could see how much time, resources, and dedication it would require to get there. 

Then I realized, I actually don't want some of these things. I don't even think I want "fearlessness". I have the power to have it if I want it but do I really want it? The desire for fearlessness is born of fear, but that didn't register to me when I was putting it on my self-actualization bucket list. It only occured to me after I sufficiently imagined acquiring and having it, which only happened because I realized I could have it.

But, we have to do something while we're here, so I'm not done with self-development or advancement, but it is interesting that when you know for sure you possess the power to become something, you might decide you don't actually want it after all, or at least, not as much.

This is mostly new territory for me so I'm sure my views will change. 

@Lyubov Would you mind sharing a little about your path? What pushed you to change and how did it happen?

I would say life pushed me to changed. All of life is ever changing and evolving. And it was simply just a matter of choice. I was going through a break up and at the time I was choosing to be a victim and go in circles. It took time, help and a tremendous amount of self honesty. I embrace a simple path. I celebrate the unknown and uncertainty of life. These are good things filled with possibilities for further transformation, a canvas to create on. I'm very careful with assuming and believing one system of thought. What if I keep my mind open and balanced and I can learn something from everyone? The language we use is very powerful. What vocabulary do you use? Are you being authentic when in your relationships, in your speech, in your action. The two biggest realizations for me were becoming conscious enough that I create my emotions and my life, through the beliefs I hold and the actions I take from those beliefs. I am not at the mercy of everything and for me I believe the middle path is for me where I live as a spiritual being but also embrace humanity. I love my life like this. I am responsible for my life, there is no way of getting out of this responsiblity. I am inherently valuable and already have everything I need within, am whole and complete in every moment. I allow it to be moment to moment that I am this wholeness and live the life I desire in flow. I am gentle with myself when I choose to look through what people here call the ego, and being honest and truthful is how I try to live my life always.

Edited July 25 by Lyubov

[Joshe]

@Lyubov Thank you!

[BlessedLion]

On 7/5/2024 at 5:56 AM, Joshe said:

I might consider passing on meditation. 

Don’t do that. Meditation is the best practice you can implement. But you also need to do shadow work, therapy, and journaling to tackle your own psyche. 
 

Check out Ken Wilber I really like his approach 

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

from my experience of doing different kinds of methods for transformation - you never truly change in the sense that you just delete the old you from your mind. i feel like i always stay who i am BUT i added new features on top of that:
for example: i was (and still am) a shy introvert growing up and through  pickup and improv classes i created a whole new "feature" of being more brave spontanous and playful around people. 

now i can enjoy socializing way more, but i stiil feel like after a few hours im tired of everybody and just want to read a book in my bed.