Reconciling Meditation vs Psychedelics

[Keryo Koffa]

Why does it take thousands of hours of Meditation vs having the same realization in a single trip?

Why do so many psychedelics experiences peak and return to baseline, are they futile or fake?

Did someone who spend all that time waste it due to paradigm lock or get something more out of it?

Meditation is a positive habit, it trains one's consciousness muscles to be aware of the present moment, to be detached from one's mind and emotions (monkey chatter), it is a powerful tool for self-actualization, patience, self-reflection, present awareness and builds momentum, as it is a continuous activity, it is actively being integrated as a state of mind into the subconscious, which then materializes in the nature of the future experience, reflecting one's previous actions and states of being. Meditation not an activity, it's rather a lifestyle of which the do-nothing method is a specific strong focus. But meditation is really like breathing, it's best if you do it at all times, and the do-nothing method is like conscious breathing, or like walking compares to running or even sprinting.

When done wrong, Meditation is a stressful and breeds contempt and bitterness. Nevertheless, by virtue of creating such difficulty, it does at least train some muscle, meanly that of engaging in activities one dislikes, which trains perseverance and discipline. Though I'm not sure if letting go of resistance wouldn't be completely superior, which is what meditation points to, the letting go of resistance and acceptance of the present moment, detachment from stress and emotion.

Now, psychedelics expand one's mind, awareness, they overpower one's ego, they show one's inadequacies and their illusory arbitrary neurotic nature. Psychedelics directly shift one into various states of mind and warp one's understanding, leaving behind massive insight. But the psychological issues do not disappear, the realization of their vanity remains, but the experiential sensations arise again since they're deeply rooted in the subconscious and have been built up over a long time through habitual behavior. One still has to deal with them and integrate understanding with present experience. This is what meditation excels at and focuses on. Someone who is adept at meditation can easily and naturally integrate psychedelic insights unless they have a non-dual paradigm lock which brings up resistance to even accept relative information and concepts. But ideally, meditation expands one's mind to all possibilities and self-reflection.

Meditation is calming one's mind and deeply understanding the nature of one's drives and emotions, taking control of one's psychology. Psychedelics shift consciousness itself directly, it's far more direct that meditation since its an experiential reality, but without meditation, it leaves one open for foolishness and since its a temporary shift, all the integration is still to be done.

Ideally, one would combine both and work hard to make meditation itself match psychedelics and find out the reasons why it isn't naturally the case. Psychedelics expand one's mind profoundly, while meditation raises baseline and deals with the overriding the subconscious from which one's habits and personality arise.

[AstralProjection]

"Why does it take thousands of hours of Meditation vs having the same realization in a single trip?"

Because with psychedelics you jump-start your enlightenment biochemistry. From an evolutionary standpoint it's hard to get into the meditative state because our ancestors had to survive and didn't have time to evolve meditation into our genetics. Nothing would select for it. I mean if you were a female who would you pick the guy that meditates all day and is enlightened but then gets eaten because he was so distracted from being enlightened on DMT. Or the guy that brings home a wholly mammoth for everyone to eat? Personally I'd wanna the guy that is more grounded in this reality. 

"Why do so many psychedelics experiences peak and return to baseline, are they futile or fake?"

Depends, sometimes it's all psychological but other times it's out of body. It depends on if you get a breakthrough experience. But even being out of body there is overlap so you will still experience what I call overlays and filters. An overlay is added onto the experience or reality, while a filter takes away or blocks something from the experience or reality. 

Edit: Either way even bad experiences you can learn from so I wouldn't call it futile even if it's all just psychological hallucinations. Also you can learn from these hallucinations as they provide context and meaning from your subconscious and your consciousness. 

"Did someone who spend all that time waste it due to paradigm lock or get something more out of it?" Idk, I don't have time to read all that text.

Edited July 7 by AstralProjection

[An young being]

On 05/07/2024 at 2:59 AM, Keryo Koffa said:

Why does it take thousands of hours of Meditation vs having the same realization in a single trip?

Why do so many psychedelics experiences peak and return to baseline, are they futile or fake?

Did someone who spend all that time waste it due to paradigm lock or get something more out of it?

Meditation is a positive habit, it trains one's consciousness muscles to be aware of the present moment, to be detached from one's mind and emotions (monkey chatter), it is a powerful tool for self-actualization, patience, self-reflection, present awareness and builds momentum, as it is a continuous activity, it is actively being integrated as a state of mind into the subconscious, which then materializes in the nature of the future experience, reflecting one's previous actions and states of being. Meditation not an activity, it's rather a lifestyle of which the do-nothing method is a specific strong focus. But meditation is really like breathing, it's best if you do it at all times, and the do-nothing method is like conscious breathing, or like walking compares to running or even sprinting.

When done wrong, Meditation is a stressful and breeds contempt and bitterness. Nevertheless, by virtue of creating such difficulty, it does at least train some muscle, meanly that of engaging in activities one dislikes, which trains perseverance and discipline. Though I'm not sure if letting go of resistance wouldn't be completely superior, which is what meditation points to, the letting go of resistance and acceptance of the present moment, detachment from stress and emotion.

Now, psychedelics expand one's mind, awareness, they overpower one's ego, they show one's inadequacies and their illusory arbitrary neurotic nature. Psychedelics directly shift one into various states of mind and warp one's understanding, leaving behind massive insight. But the psychological issues do not disappear, the realization of their vanity remains, but the experiential sensations arise again since they're deeply rooted in the subconscious and have been built up over a long time through habitual behavior. One still has to deal with them and integrate understanding with present experience. This is what meditation excels at and focuses on. Someone who is adept at meditation can easily and naturally integrate psychedelic insights unless they have a non-dual paradigm lock which brings up resistance to even accept relative information and concepts. But ideally, meditation expands one's mind to all possibilities and self-reflection.

Meditation is calming one's mind and deeply understanding the nature of one's drives and emotions, taking control of one's psychology. Psychedelics shift consciousness itself directly, it's far more direct that meditation since its an experiential reality, but without meditation, it leaves one open for foolishness and since its a temporary shift, all the integration is still to be done.

Ideally, one would combine both and work hard to make meditation itself match psychedelics and find out the reasons why it isn't naturally the case. Psychedelics expand one's mind profoundly, while meditation raises baseline and deals with the overriding the subconscious from which one's habits and personality arise.

There are many who hate meditation, there are many who hate psychedelics, but there are a few who hate nothing, many call them the enlightened ones.

[Javfly33]

Let's say you are inside a prison, Psychedelics are like a trampoline, for some moments they let you jump so high you can see outside. 

Meditation or constant spiritual sadhana is not so exciting, you don´t see much, but slowly you are building a ladder so one day you will jump out of the fence.  

For most people in the western world where no spiritual tradition has being strong, both are important and complementary.

The first is useful to let you see there is a world outside the prison. The second one is as important because is when the work of actually escaping starts.

Without the first one there wouldn´t be a motivation to start building the ladder, yet the without the second one all the work would just end in having some experiences or realisations but nothing of real transformation. 

 

So jump as high as you can, and once you see all that you need to see, start building the ladder that will get you there for good.  

Edited July 8 by Javfly33

[Yimpa]

Psychedelics take you straight to the source of whatever it is you’re experiencing.

[AstralProjection]

12 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Psychedelics take you straight to the source of whatever it is you’re experiencing.

It's called phasing your consciousness inward in the astral projection community. 

[theleelajoker]

Quote

It's called phasing your consciousness inward in the astral projection community. 

Can you elaborate on "phasing your consciousness inward"?  I'm simply curious.

 

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Why do so many psychedelics experiences peak and return to baseline, are they futile or fake?

I have a systemic perspective on that. Psychedelics are a powerful puzzle piece, but just one component in a complex system of being human.

Edited July 8 by theleelajoker

[Recursoinominado]

Meditation allows you to handle psychedelic experiences and integrate them.

A lot of inner demons are aroused during those trips and without the skill of meditation you may be in big trouble.

Give some LSD to a hardcore meditator and to someone who has never actualized themselves, you will get two vastly different experiences. 

[An young being]

27 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

Meditation allows you to handle psychedelic experiences and integrate them.

A lot of inner demons are aroused during those trips and without the skill of meditation you may be in big trouble.

Give some LSD to a hardcore meditator and to someone who has never actualized themselves, you will get two vastly different experiences. 

Meditation itself on it's own can arise a lot of inner demons and reactions when not done with the right intention. That's why most Spiritual practices emphasize to follow lots of moral and disciplinary activities to keep the ego in check.

[What Am I]

27 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

Meditation allows you to handle psychedelic experiences and integrate them.

A lot of inner demons are aroused during those trips and without the skill of meditation you may be in big trouble.

Give some LSD to a hardcore meditator and to someone who has never actualized themselves, you will get two vastly different experiences. 

Yes, exactly. With skills in conscious awareness, you can alter and enhance the flow of a trip moment to moment. Being under the influence of psychedelics seems to be a prime time to check how impactful your techniques (or purposeful non-techniques) are, because the states produced are so pliant and provide useful feedback.