Actualized.org and Suicide

[Gennadiy1981]

This week was already the second time that I stumbled on internet (first time was few month ago) that three people committed suicide because they watched actualized.org. I don’t know if it’s true but I would say it’s not, though, on most videos that Leo releases he puts a disclaimer about suicidal and on very few deep videos like one about poetic vision he had, he warned that that those who are suicidal should not watch. I am not here to argue whether it’s true or not, my question is why is it suicidal to begin with.

At first Leo always warn not to commit suicide and all his teachings are actually geared for a profound life. I would understand for example, if Leo was teaching people to have a high paying job, drive expensive cars, have sex with the most beautiful girls then I would understand, as most people cannot achieve all those items, then they would feel suicidal. But it’s the other way around where Leo teaches people to be humble and seek the truth and connect with your higher self that technically anyone can do that, all you need is to just find time alone and be with yourself, you don’t even need to be social. Realistically can someone explain, why would someone be suicidal after those teachings. 
 

Unless the person plans to kill himself and just use actualized.org as an excuse, but he could have used any excuse even watching CNN. Or someone with extremely weak psyche who gets depressed by seeing someone killing an insect?

[Leo Gura]

It's quite easy to explain. Some people who are drawn to psychological and spiritual work have mental illnesses or are unhappy and suffering deeply in life.

Out of hundreds of thousands of viewers, a few will have serious mental health issues and will be suicidal.

The US national suicide rate is: 50k out of 350M, which is 0.014%.

Now multiply 0.014% x 100,000 Actualized viewers = 14 suicides/yr.

Actualized.org has had over 100M lifetime views.

So the question is: What is it that you expect?

Let's assume that only 1M unique people have watched my videos in the last 10 years. That means there should have been 140 suicides.

3 suicides out of all the people who watch my videos would be a really good rate.

The real issue here is that people do not understand how high the average suicide rate is and what it means.

More than 1/10,000 people commit suicide every year.

Each of my videos gets 40,000 views within 1 week at least.

Edited July 4 by Leo Gura

[lostingenosmaze]

@Leo Gura Bro, it's not about the statistics. It's how the victims were closely associated with this community, with you, and your teachings, Soonhei being most notable out of the three. We don't bother to count how many suicides incidentally occurred out of MrBeasts 100s of millions of followers.

Edited July 4 by lostingenosmaze

[lostingenosmaze]

@Gennadiy1981  Leo's arrogance back then with how easily he makes confident definitive statements around meaning (or lack thereof), Truth and death can leave a lasting impression on young and immature people. He's taken the feedback and improved his style since especially recently and I commend him for that. It's also possible Leo's videos can get clipped or paraphrased around the Internet, easily taken out of context and nuance like it happened with Professoe Dave.

Edited July 4 by lostingenosmaze

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, lostingenosmaze said:

@Leo Gura Bro, it's not about the statistics.

But it is.

Quote

It's how the victims were closely associated with this community, with you, and your teachings

It doesn't matter whether they are close or aren't. Suicide can happen either way. Just because someone is close to my teachings does not magically make them immune to suicide or mental illness.

If you want to demonstrate that my teachings cause people to commit suicide then you have to show that people who follow my teachings commit suicide at higher rates than the general population.

But even that would not be enough because you would also have to take into account that people drawn to psychological and spiritual work could have a higher rate of mental illness than the general population.

Quote

Soonhei being most notable out of the three.

Soonhei was not mentally well. His posts on this forum do not read like the posts on a well-adjusted mind. I know because I was deliberating about whether to ban him because the stuff he was posting was frequently weird and nonsensical and just felt off. I decided to be kind and let him stay because I didn't want him to feel bad.

Quote

We don't bother to count how many suicides incidentally occurred out of MrBeasts 100s of millions of followers.

Exactly. Because you're looking to blame my teachings.

Edited July 4 by Leo Gura

[enchanted]

If you think suicide is wrong, don't kill yourself.

[Yimpa]

How many people die from the educational system? 

Quote

In colleges and universities in the United States, suicide is one of the most common causes of death among students.[1] Each year, approximately 24,000 college students attempt suicide while 1,100 students succeed in their attempt, making suicide the second-leading cause of death among U.S. college students.

Source

Edited July 4 by Yimpa

[enchanted]

14 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

How many people die from the educational system? 

Source

Lol, exactly 

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's quite easy to explain. Some people who are drawn to psychological and spiritual work have mental illnesses or are unhappy and suffering deeply in life.

Out of hundreds of thousands of viewers, a few will have serious mental health issues and will be suicidal.

The US national suicide rate is: 50k out of 350M, which is 0.014%.

Now multiply 0.014% x 100,000 Actualized viewers = 14 suicides/yr.

Actualized.org has had over 100M lifetime views.

So the question is: What is it that you expect?

Let's assume that only 1M unique people have watched my videos in the last 10 years. That means there should have been 140 suicides.

3 suicides out of all the people who watch my videos would be a really good rate.

The real issue here is that people do not understand how high the average suicide rate is and what it means.

More than 1/10,000 people commit suicide every year.

Each of my videos gets 40,000 views within 1 week at least.

Great metrics.

[JosephKnecht]

8 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Realistically can someone explain, why would someone be suicidal after those teachings. 

The things Leo talks about can be achieved only through the transcendence of the self.

Some people wrongly believe that the self can only be transcended through physical death. 

7 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

@Leo Gura Bro, it's not about the statistics. It's how the victims were closely associated with this community, with you, and your teachings, Soonhei being most notable out of the three. We don't bother to count how many suicides incidentally occurred out of MrBeasts 100s of millions of followers.

@lostingenosmaze I like the quote below. 

“Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruits; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:15–20.)

The question you should ask yourself is, how many people were helped by these teachings, and how many were hurt? 

Also, how many "suicides" did Leo commit to get to the Truth? 

[Danioover9000]

@lostingenosmaze

8 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

@Leo Gura Bro, it's not about the statistics. It's how the victims were closely associated with this community, with you, and your teachings, Soonhei being most notable out of the three. We don't bother to count how many suicides incidentally occurred out of MrBeasts 100s of millions of followers.

   Based on developmental factors, facts, statistics and logic are from more stage orange values. The function of logic and facts/statistics is to use numbers and numeric value and disassociate yourself from the situation. Numbers and data can be used to distance ourselves, make it more impersonal and less personal, especially when one event was so traumatic that depression, derealization, and disassociation is one way to cope with it.

   Having said all that, stats and data have their uses as well. Averaging the information and numbers, finding the aggregate of other variables, it's good to have data and statistics for an objective consensus reality. Statistics and data on suicide for example is good because it tells us, approximately, just how many suffer from suicide attempts, suicidation, and suicide deaths per years. Mr. Girl actually had a great video on this, about BLM, and his take on Neil De Gray Tyson on twitter bringing stats, and Mr. Girl saying that him doing that is him trying to distance himself from those events with a wall of logic and numbers, triggering apathy for yourself to protect yourself from the overload of empathy and emotions that'll wave and crush your mind.

7 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

@Gennadiy1981  Leo's arrogance back then with how easily he makes confident definitive statements around meaning (or lack thereof), Truth and death can leave a lasting impression on young and immature people. He's taken the feedback and improved his style since especially recently and I commend him for that. It's also possible Leo's videos can get clipped or paraphrased around the Internet, easily taken out of context and nuance like it happened with Professoe Dave.

   Yeah that was his communication style then.

[Epikur]

I think this stuff is not for normal people. Most people want some fake meaning for their life something like religion or something else that sounds good. Schopenhauer would say people are motivated by the will to live. This, one could assume comes from the animal self. The spiritual self can not be motivated by the animal self. That is why Schopenhauer says only few people can create a meaning through art and science. So it might be dangerous to teach normal people non dual stuff that may weaken their animal will and they are left with nothing.

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

I though to kill myself many times,but not because of Leo Teachings, was because my actual awakenings. Once you realize there is no other place to go it make easy to decide to go, but make harder too because become non sense to try a escape. You realize the way out is thougth it. With suffering and all. 

[Yimpa]

I have never been drawn to to kill myself. I’m attracted to understanding deeper layers of how reality works - life, death, and everything in between.

Edited July 4 by Yimpa

[Danioover9000]

@Epikur

1 hour ago, Epikur said:

I think this stuff is not for normal people. Most people want some fake meaning for their life something like religion or something else that sounds good. Schopenhauer would say people are motivated by the will to live. This, one could assume comes from the animal self. The spiritual self can not be motivated by the animal self. That is why Schopenhauer says only few people can create a meaning through art and science. So it might be dangerous to teach normal people non dual stuff that may weaken their animal will and they are left with nothing.

 

   I agree, most normal people just want a life improvement advice or just personal development. Not advanced spiritual mind bending infinity, they are not ready for that. Only the most open minded 'truth seekers' out there I guess.

[Princess Arabia]

The stats says over 48,000 suicides/year in US. 3 Actualized users in 10 years. Go figure. Hundreds got saved and improved their lives.

Edited July 4 by Princess Arabia

[Yimpa]

How many lives have been saved? 

[Gennadiy1981]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's quite easy to explain. Some people who are drawn to psychological and spiritual work have mental illnesses or are unhappy and suffering deeply in life.

Out of hundreds of thousands of viewers, a few will have serious mental health issues and will be suicidal.

The US national suicide rate is: 50k out of 350M, which is 0.014%.

Now multiply 0.014% x 100,000 Actualized viewers = 14 suicides/yr.

Actualized.org has had over 100M lifetime views.

So the question is: What is it that you expect?

Let's assume that only 1M unique people have watched my videos in the last 10 years. That means there should have been 140 suicides.

3 suicides out of all the people who watch my videos would be a really good rate.

The real issue here is that people do not understand how high the average suicide rate is and what it means.

More than 1/10,000 people commit suicide every year.

Each of my videos gets 40,000 views within 1 week at least.

Thanks for the math, so that was my real point, meaning people still commit suicide, its not that Actualized.org indirectly drives them (of course you state many times for those who are suicidal they should stop watching), or its somehow the context that makes them suicidal. 

I get the statistics, and its like saying there is a certain percentage of thievery in USA, so statistically those who watch, probability wise have to be at least few thieves, but that is just a probable cause and its not like when hearing awaking an individual is driven to steal stuff.

[LordFall]

@Rafael Thundercat I feel similarly. Spirituality both made suicide less taboo for me than before but also more pointless. Might as well enjoy the experience and learn to integrate the suffering.

Been suicidal lately as life got hard and I'd say spirituality has helped more me than not. I would say specifically stuff like the power of now and the meditation habit that I got from you Leo have been very helpful. 

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

@Rafael Thundercat I feel similarly. Spirituality both made suicide less taboo for me than before but also more pointless. Might as well enjoy the experience and learn to integrate the suffering.

Been suicidal lately as life got hard and I'd say spirituality has helped more me than not. I would say specifically stuff like the power of now and the meditation habit that I got from you Leo have been very helpful. 

Exactly, Leo's teaching is to avoid suicide at all cost, all his advises can be accepted technically by anyone, you don't need money, hot girls or fame. All you need is to be with yourself. 

A long time ago I read an interesting article about Pfizer's Prozac, an anti depression pill. It was selling very well, except Japan. There, people have a mentality that life is like a river, you must have good days and bad days. So if you have few good days you need to expect bad days. And they could not sell anti depressants. So they made an evil plan, invested 5 billion (dont quote me on the number) and introduced American Culture there, movies, shows, reality TV and so on. Basically the American pop culture is to have high paying job, live in a mansion, fuck the most beautiful girls and drive Lamborghinis. An average person, at best can have one or even half of the items, so after I believe five years, the experiment worked and people started to fall into depression and the Prozac started to go fast.

So if Leo was teaching that, I can understand people be suicidal, but its the other way around. 

And one more thing, I just started a small topic, but even on this thread, I feel like the idea of suicide is not new phenomena for some people here when it comes to personal level. Interesting how intimate this topic can be.

Edited July 4 by Gennadiy1981