Project 2025??

[Danioover9000]

@Yimpa

3 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I didn’t pick my partner. My partner picked me.

(I don’t live in Russia)

🤣

[Yimpa]

Learning from diverse partners makes the whole happier. 

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

3 hours ago, mrPixel said:

I would say that certain leftist idealists overshot the mark. But that's to be expected as mistakes happen and we learn from them. You don't just throw the baby out with the bathwater. You claim that progressives are divorced from reality but believing that we could go back in time and adopt values that we outgrew is not exactly grounded in reality either. Things change. Such is life.

   If that's true, then why are leftists not learning that mass immigration and too much inclusivity sometimes don't work? Have they learned to not over generalize every conservative as some alt right? That the border crisis isn't just some alt right talking point only?

[Danioover9000]

@Etherial Cat

3 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

There are still plenty of traditional blue-value societies. If you honestly examine how well they function, you'll be compelled to conclude that they are not successful outside of your theoretical ideals.

There are reasons why we moved passed it. It sucked for everyone.

   Yes, 3rd world theocracies function so well that Neoliberals keep on getting them, because they reproduce faster than western societies, as good replacements for cheaper labor. Why? Because Neolibs and hardcore capitalists know that immigrants work harder and are cheaper to hire than western liberals that are democratic, individualist, and will complain more than them. However, in doing so they also want to Americanize those 3rd world theocratic countries, destroying their societies, at the cost of seeking that utopia of multiculturalism. Again, look to South Korea, to Japan, to some EU countries and the UK to know what I mean.

[Rafael Thundercat]

All this talk Inspired me to review this video 

 

 

[mrPixel]

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

If that's true, then why are leftists not learning that mass immigration and too much inclusivity sometimes don't work?

I don't know what you mean. Are you referring to an open border policy? If so, I don't know anyone who's pro open border. But I also don't know anyone who's lives have been affected negatively by immigrants infiltrating the country. I lived a whopping 20 minutes from the Mexican border in California for the last 12 years and nothing has changed there. Crime may have gone up but the news always exaggerates.

I agree with the right that an open border policy is a bad one but I am well aware of the fear mongering and propaganda you hear on Fox news. The idea that they're "taking our jobs" is laughable. What are they gonna do? Are CEOs, lawyers, doctors, and software developers livelihoods at stake? I'm not too worried about immigrants washing dishes illegally at some mom and pops taco shop or mowing lawns for $10 an hour under the table.

I disagree with you that the left isn't learning. They aren't stupid. Historically, progressive countries open their borders until they learn to set appropriate boundaries. Just look at northern Europe. Also, Biden attempted to address the problems at the border but the right shut him down.

[mrPixel]

31 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Have they learned to not over generalize every conservative as some alt right?

That's funny because I was going to accuse you of making generalized statements about the left.

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

59 minutes ago, mrPixel said:

I don't know what you mean. Are you referring to an open border policy? If so, I don't know anyone who's pro open border. But I also don't know anyone who's lives have been affected negatively by immigrants infiltrating the country. I lived a whopping 20 minutes from the Mexican border in California for the last 12 years and nothing has changed there. Crime may have gone up but the news always exaggerates.

I agree with the right that an open border policy is a bad one but I am well aware of the fear mongering and propaganda you hear on Fox news. The idea that they're "taking our jobs" is laughable. What are they gonna do? Are CEOs, lawyers, doctors, and software developers livelihoods at stake? I'm not too worried about immigrants washing dishes illegally at some mom and pops taco shop or mowing lawns for $10 an hour under the table.

I disagree with you that the left isn't learning. They aren't stupid. Historically, progressive countries open their borders until they learn to set appropriate boundaries. Just look at northern Europe. Also, Biden attempted to address the problems at the border but the right shut him down.

   Do you live anywhere near where this guy just visited? Seen what they are like?

   Also, according to Jordan Peterson:

 

   Assuming all of that is true, and some of your fellow citizens in California, native to California, have an IQ range of 90-100, and can only do some jobs that are in that range, they can only labor intensive and construction types of jobs. Then you have an increasing immigration from Mexico onto the job market your Californian middle-lower class people are in, and now there's shortage of labor due to higher immigration onto those available jobs, thereby increasing homelessness there. All that made because your companies the Neoliberals all operate, and corporate masters all want the cheaper labors from foreign countries than the local poll, is all that not a serious problem? And see how most of the left are not understanding that this is a huge problem their state/country is facing when some demographics and psychographics are at much lower ranges in IQ. Do you not see that despite this, some Lefties still are preaching all inclusivity despite increasing suffering from some of their own people?

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

1 hour ago, mrPixel said:

That's funny because I was going to accuse you of making generalized statements about the left.

   Lucky you didn't, otherwise it would've made me and my argument look better. Also against forum policy to name call, insult, ad hominem, the typical fallacies arguers commit when losing badly like few are here.

Edited July 4 by Danioover9000

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Etherial Cat

   Yes, 3rd world theocracies function so well that Neoliberals keep on getting them, because they reproduce faster than western societies, as good replacements for cheaper labor. Why? Because Neolibs and hardcore capitalists know that immigrants work harder and are cheaper to hire than western liberals that are democratic, individualist, and will complain more than them. However, in doing so they also want to Americanize those 3rd world theocratic countries, destroying their societies, at the cost of seeking that utopia of multiculturalism. Again, look to South Korea, to Japan, to some EU countries and the UK to know what I mean.

Reading your words, I conclude that the major flaws in your reasoning are that you are confusing pears with apples and operating from false data.

When I think about Third World theocracies, the countries that come to mind are primarily Middle Eastern or Arabic nations. These nations aren't much competing with western nations when it comes to the labour market. They are mostly relying on natural ressources (oil), agriculture, tourism, and some manufacturing while noways western nations are more focused on the service industries. Western industries have been delocalized for production mostly in Asia, which except for a couple south eastern countries aren't even close to being theocracies.

And actually, one of these country is China, and they've had until very recently the one child policy. So your assessment of the situation is straight out absurd.

Western nations aren't very interested in people immigrating from Third World theocracies. Instead, they seek skilled intellectual labor. In the EU and the UK, most social dumping and industry delocalization have occurred by placing Western EU nations in economic competition with Eastern EU nations through free immigration policies within the EU and the free circulation of capital. This was one of the reasons why the UK ended up leaving the EU, as economically strong regions experienced a large influx of immigrants from all over the EU.

Japan and South Korea are neither theocratic nor subject to a mass influx of immigration from these types of countries. In fact, they are quite protectionist nations with strong anti-immigration policies. Both countries have also struggled with declining birth rates due to an extremely competitive labor market, high inflation, and high living costs. They also have a quite high suicide rate.

 

 

[Etherial Cat]

5 hours ago, nerdspeak said:

You can’t help people get out of it quickly, it takes years. Like it’s really not worth it,  they have to already suspect there’s something wrong with it from the beginning, get burned by it, and then have a friend or therapist who can help process the emotions in a way that helps them move out of it, rather than reinforcing the belief that it’s necessary.  

I’ll talk about my experience in Kyiv. It’s not a traditional society by any means but gender roles are more traditional and women are encouraged to be very strategic about their dating to improve their material security.  

I started to see that it wasn’t good for me and then started gathering evidence that it wasn’t necessary. 

Yes, more women in those cultures are superficially nice to Western men because they perceive us as high-status and potentially helpful in a crisis. 

But if the woman knows I’m playing an arbitrage game, and I know I’m playing an arbitrage game, there’s always a transactional element. And transactional people are not deeply loyal — if someone gives them a better offer they’ll jump ship. They will also keep escalating their demands to see what they can extract. This always feels kind of shitty, and the only way to win this game is to stop playing it.  

As a side note, even quite dumb Western expats in Ukraine are aware of this transactional bent and complain, often blaming it on Ukraine being unusually unstable, or Western influence, and say that women from Russia or Belarus are much cooler haha. 

After the war started, the demands from my Ukrainian partner escalated beyond what I could offer without feeling resentment and I just felt a strong desire to get out of these transactional relationships and be around people I could learn things from.

Yes. Absolutely. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Transactional relationships and self-commodification in general are definitely miserable.

Also, they are a reinforced through the current economic and politic system we live in. If people were actually feeling safer when it comes to having their basic needs met, we'd see much less of that.

[mrPixel]

@Danioover9000 I just typed out a lengthy response but the forum gobbled it up and lost it in the ether. I'm too tired to type it all again but the gist was that I agree with some of your points but I think you're lumping all lefties into the same bucket.

[mrPixel]

Anyways, back to the topic of Project 2025. Usual right-wing tactics here, denial and deflection.

 

[Yimpa]

Just found out that Project 2025 is also known as the Presidential Transition Project. Jeez, I thought conservatives were against children transitioning… they are really the children here.

Edited July 4 by Yimpa

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

32 minutes ago, mrPixel said:

@Danioover9000 I just typed out a lengthy response but the forum gobbled it up and lost it in the ether. I'm too tired to type it all again but the gist was that I agree with some of your points but I think you're lumping all lefties into the same bucket.

   Nope, just some who think there's no faults in liberalism, feminism, egalitarianism, multiculturalism, and so on. Those who are left leaning who can admit there are weaknesses in their thinking and ideology, I'm fine with. Those who are in denial I leave alone and they leave me alone. Those who are deluded and want everyone to be a lefty, well they need help.

[mrPixel]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

well they need help

I agree. That is why we need affordable healthcare.

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

1 minute ago, mrPixel said:

I agree. That is why we need affordable healthcare.

   Affordable healthcare, but not at the expense of raising tax payer money too much, or raising the standards of living.

[DocWatts]

 

[nerdspeak]

"Trump claims Presidential immunity from criminal prosecution — the Lockean executive prerogative to break the law in order to preserve it. There is already legislative (parliamentary) and judicial immunity, to prevent abusive exercise of the law by the executive — which in Locke’s moment was that of the hereditary monarchy and its appointed Majesty’s deputies (including judges). What is usually overlooked is the need to prevent the reverse, the legislative (and judicial) abuse of the executive function of government." 

Worth reading in full. While the far-left has diverse views about Trump, some figures are on board with Trump's unitary executive theory.  https://platypus1917.org/2024/05/01/why-not-trump-again-2/

[Danioover9000]

@nerdspeak

1 hour ago, nerdspeak said:

"Trump claims Presidential immunity from criminal prosecution — the Lockean executive prerogative to break the law in order to preserve it. There is already legislative (parliamentary) and judicial immunity, to prevent abusive exercise of the law by the executive — which in Locke’s moment was that of the hereditary monarchy and its appointed Majesty’s deputies (including judges). What is usually overlooked is the need to prevent the reverse, the legislative (and judicial) abuse of the executive function of government." 

Worth reading in full. While the far-left has diverse views about Trump, some figures are on board with Trump's unitary executive theory.  https://platypus1917.org/2024/05/01/why-not-trump-again-2/

   What that really means is that most Americans are fed up of being polarized by the news and politics. They want unity deep down.