Project 2025??

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, TheAlchemist said:

Good point, it's just baffling how this doesn't register as an actual issue for so many people. Even though there is 100x more historical, sociological, geopolitical reason to be seriously concerned about this than some "Great Reset" hype. It's just fascinating (and scary) what kind of stuff gets masses of people panicked and concerned (Great Reset, WEF, conspiracy theories), and how when actual shit goes down it just doesn't seem to click. 

The problem is that a sizeable portion of country has been groomed, through decades of propaganda, for an American version of fascism.

They think that Trump is going to be 'thier' dictator, who's going to protect them from a litany of imagined threats. 

Of course, many of these working class MAGA types are going to be left holding the bag when the US government under a Trump autocracy degrades to the point where its unable to fulfill many of its basic functions. 

These are the same people who will be crying foul and looking for a scapegoat when they're kicked off from their government subsidized healthcare, when someone close to them is forced to carry a non-viable fetus in thier womb for nine months, when they lose their job due to a recession that's triggered by plutocratic economic policy.

Edited July 3 by DocWatts

[Bobby_2021]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

America could lose its democracy for a long time. Take this matter seriously.

Americans when they topple democracies in random countries on the map:  🇺🇲🏳️‍🌈

Americans when an orange clown is about to derail their own democracy: 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Study the gesticulation of a Ditactor. Every Devil follows the same style. 

 

[abundance]

 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

From what I understand, political leaders reflect the values and developmental level of most of the nation. The majority of Americans don't share blue-stage values at all. How on earth would they tolerate a Christian fascist dictator? Even if (or when lol) Trump gets reelected and starts reenacting this strategy his rule won't last. People will rise up or something

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

[DocWatts]

13 minutes ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

From what I understand, political leaders reflect the values and developmental level of most of the nation. The majority of Americans don't share blue-stage values at all. How on earth would they tolerate a Christian fascist dictator? Even if (or when lol) Trump gets reelected and starts reenacting this strategy his rule won't last. People will rise up or something

The structure of our Electoral College and Senate is such that it gives rural folks with stage Blue values an undemocratic, outsized influence in US federal elections. Both institutions are effectively a form of Affirmative Action for conservatives.

If US presidential elections were decided by national popular vote, it would be almost impossible for the Republican Party to win. The structure of the US Senate is quite undemocratic, since it gives small rural states like Wyoming the same amount of Senators as states like California that have 40x's its population.

In other words, our institutions are quite outdated and flawed, which is why someone like Donald Trump who has the support of maybe a third of the country has better than even odds of becoming president.

Voter suppression efforts in red states make this problem even worse, ever since the Voting Rights Act was gutted by the Supreme Court in 2013.

Edited July 3 by DocWatts

[Yimpa]

The irony is that treating Trump as God is breaking the first two commandments:

Quote

1.    “You shall have no other gods before Me.”

2.    “You shall not make idols.”

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

From what I understand, political leaders reflect the values and developmental level of most of the nation. The majority of Americans don't share blue-stage values at all. How on earth would they tolerate a Christian fascist dictator? Even if (or when lol) Trump gets reelected and starts reenacting this strategy his rule won't last. People will rise up or something

America's democracy has already been corrupted into minority rule.

Once Trump is in office he is never leaving and nothing you do will stop him. He will break all the rules and laws and once you see it it will be too late to do anything about it. You will not vote him out. And no court will be able to do anything.

Edited July 3 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Jayson G

On 2024-07-01 at 4:50 AM, Jayson G said:

I just saw @Leo Gura's blog post. 

I had to rewatch the first guy's video 3x, this actually sounds batshit crazy. 

I tried skimming some parts of the 900 page paper: https://www.project2025.org/policy/

But I honestly don't understand it. I'm unfortunately very ignorant of anything politics related on a technical level, although I do listen to a lot of high level stuff. 

I tried putting some of the pdf papers into chatgpt, and well ChatGPT is too damn nice I guess. It says everything is fine lol but its ChatGPT. 

Anyways, what's really going on here?

Some things I'm thinking: 

What are the implications of this?

By current government processes, built over centuries, how could it let one man have so much power and be a dictator like that? would the government even allow this?

How much of this is fear mongering? 

Could this be just a bunch of idiots trying to get it there way but the government won't allow that?

I really don't know, but I definitely didn't like a lot of the points the guy in the first video described. 

I mean people say a lot of stuff, but does that mean any of this stuff will really happen?

I'm also curious what you guys think the implications this could have on an individual level? the future? different sectors like AI, military, etc.? What groups will get affected and how?

Key point of my post: I definitely don't want to make this sound like I am choosing an argument or position here. I really just want to understand this situation deeper, if there really is that much of a concern at all. I think first having a deep understanding of the situation is key. 

Kind of random, but a youtuber commented on that first video: "German here. I have found out about Project 2025 months ago and have been worried ever since. My grandparents fell for it. I hope that most of you don't." you guys don't really think this is anything similar to hitler is it? again, just looking for understanding here.

Me too.

Are you an online streamer? Seems like it's common to watch anything at 3x.

I also skimmed the 900 pages.

I'm still understanding the thing, but at my free time. and pace. I know a bit of politics.

Can you show us what ChatGBT said?

What's really going on? Leo's posts or the trump situation?

More authoritarianism. IMO it's desirable because feminism, egalitarianism, multiculturalism, and liberalism is run amok, there's too much liberalism in America, and declines in birthrates in most westernized countries due to legalized abortions without strict controls and regulations. Russia for example, due to it being the first country to try secularism/humanism, and legalized abortions, are now suffering from replacement numbers within it's own nation. Same with Japan, same with South Korea, same with most EU countries. We need a kind of government like the Romans, limited democracy, more senates with less voting powers. Like Roman empire it needs half military and autocracy in times of war, but half of it is democratic in times of peace. Much better if it's like this. IMO not all Christian nationalists are bad, example is Andrew Wilson from the Crucible. Very decent guy, good debater, reasonable person. Not all Christian nationalists are lunatics as Leo paints them to be. His gripe is actually more the stage orange than stage blue types.

The reason why is too much democracy, and the failings of the Obama administration, which allowed Trump that opportunity. America is just not ready for socialism or progressivism.

Yes, people say a lot of crazy stuff. It's the internet.

The implications of a smaller, more limited democracy is priceless for the future. We need a smaller democracy and to reign in too much socialism thinking.

What it sounds like with that German guy commenting on that video, is the type similar to those that fall victim to Armageddon or apocalypse scenarios. They're IMO a bunch of conspiracy theorists with little better things to do than to spread fear and worry.

All the understanding you need to know is we desperately need a more limited government, with a limited democracy.  

 

Edited July 3 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@DocWatts

5 hours ago, DocWatts said:

The problem is that a sizeable portion of country has been groomed, through decades of propaganda, for an American version of fascism.

They think that Trump is going to be 'thier' dictator, who's going to protect them from a litany of imagined threats. 

Of course, many of these working class MAGA types are going to be left holding the bag when the US government under a Trump autocracy degrades to the point where its unable to fulfill many of its basic functions. 

These are the same people who will be crying foul and looking for a scapegoat when they're kicked off from their government subsidized healthcare, when someone close to them is forced to carry a non-viable fetus in thier womb for nine months, when they lose their job due to a recession that's triggered by plutocratic economic policy.

   It could also be the case that Trump might be that stupid enough to let all of America's government be total autocracy. It could be half autocracy half democracy. Just like it's similar to the Roman empire's government.

[Danioover9000]

IMO if he say's it's unlikely that Trump may win, he's likely right:

   For Trump to win, he'll need that same amount of support he had before he was elected, and for the leftist administration to have antagonized the central and right wing, and even working class citizens. Does Trump still have that same support? No. It's diminished enough that he'll not win. Trump's victory hinges on Biden having a COLLOSAL failure that embarrasses himself and his administration, so much that this'll reignite support for Trump! 

[Etherial Cat]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/03/supreme-court-trump-coup-attempt

Posted today by the Guardian:

Quote

 

January 6 was an attack on the constitution and so was 1 July. That no one is above the law has been a pillar of this nation and a cherished value since the 18th century; to knock it down in the 21st destabilizes structures and values that have stood these two centuries and more. A president with total immunity poses obvious threats to the rule of law, the balance of powers and democracy itself, and if that president is the vindictive criminal on the Republican ticket the dangers are immediate and obvious.

 

 

 

The coup is still on going and hasn't stopped with January 6th. Just the fact that this is still possible means that they nearly haven't stopped enough seditionist. They even still ARE in power.

5 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

From what I understand, political leaders reflect the values and developmental level of most of the nation. The majority of Americans don't share blue-stage values at all. How on earth would they tolerate a Christian fascist dictator? Even if (or when lol) Trump gets reelected and starts reenacting this strategy his rule won't last. People will rise up or something

My understanding of the situation is as follows: There are two choices: either we move towards more Green values and empower Green-leaning leaders, or we stay below Green in the spiral, stuck in Orange and Blue.

Trumpism is essentially an alliance of Orange and Blue against Orange/Green.

Trump himself isn't Blue, but he is a con artist who sees nothing wrong in exploiting what he likely perceives as naive Blue allies. Many Orange people can be like that, especially if they create a Green shadow for themselves, which happens quite often.

Now, here's something I've been thinking about: Why are we now risking a Stage Blue theocracy? In short, people who have assets and power usually do not like change and prefer things to remain as they are to keep their perks and worldview intact. This group tends to include individuals who have either done particularly well in the current system or inherited wealth. Many of them are men, and most of them aren't that young.

When they see a failure in Orange, they prefer to seek explanations in Blue rather than moving towards Green. They believe that the reason everything is going badly now is because of Green politics, which serves as a convenient scapegoat, and they seek order through Blue.

Additionally, there are many Blue billionaire loonies. For example, in France, two of the richest billionaires, Bolloré and Bettencourt-Meyers, are extremely religious, far beyond the average person's scope. Bolloré never goes anywhere without his personal priest. Meanwhile, he conducts business in the most unconscious, unsustainable, and abusive ways, both domestically and in former French colonies. The Blue worldview allows him to do all this while still identifying himself as a devout worshiper of the Lord.

There is much to be said about the perks that a Blue worldview offers, but one significant aspect is the magical thinking that helps them cope with what the reason and science of Orange and Green would highlight as major issues that cannot be reduced to a magical postulate.

And as for why American are risking a theocracy even if they don't see it coming, it is because it will be a descendant move, coming from the Christian minority in power that will mostly do the work from the top. In the exact same way why American lost Roe vs Wade without any popular reason coming from the base up, if you will.

Edited July 3 by Etherial Cat

[Danioover9000]

@Etherial Cat

34 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/03/supreme-court-trump-coup-attempt

Posted today by the Guardian:

The coup is still on going and hasn't stopped with January 6th. Just the fact that this is still possible means that they nearly haven't stopped enough seditionist. They even still ARE in power.

My understanding of the situation is as follows: There are two choices: either we move towards more Green values and empower Green-leaning leaders, or we stay below Green in the spiral, stuck in Orange and Blue.

Trumpism is essentially an alliance of Orange and Blue against Orange/Green.

Trump himself isn't Blue, but he is a con artist who sees nothing wrong in exploiting what he likely perceives as naive Blue allies. Many Orange people can be like that, especially if they create a Green shadow for themselves, which happens quite often.

Now, here's something I've been thinking about: Why are we now risking a Stage Blue theocracy? In short, people who have assets and power usually do not like change and prefer things to remain as they are to keep their perks and worldview intact. This group tends to include individuals who have either done particularly well in the current system or inherited wealth. Many of them are men, and most of them aren't that young.

When they see a failure in Orange, they prefer to seek explanations in Blue rather than moving towards Green. They believe that the reason everything is going badly now is because of Green politics, which serves as a convenient scapegoat, and they seek order through Blue.

Additionally, there are many Blue billionaire loonies. For example, in France, two of the richest billionaires, Bolloré and Bettencourt-Meyers, are extremely religious, far beyond the average person's scope. Bolloré never goes anywhere without his personal priest. Meanwhile, he conducts business in the most unconscious, unsustainable, and abusive ways, both domestically and in former French colonies. The Blue worldview allows him to do all this while still identifying himself as a devout worshiper of the Lord.

There is much to be said about the perks that a Blue worldview offers, but one significant aspect is the magical thinking that helps them cope with what the reason and science of Orange and Green would highlight as major issues that cannot be reduced to a magical postulate.

And as for why American are risking a theocracy even if they don't see it coming, it is because it will be a descendant move, coming from the Christian minority in power that will mostly do the work from the top. In the exact same way why American lost Roe vs Wade without any popular reason coming from the base up, if you will.

   The main reason why is that there's such a thing as too much multiculturalism, feminism, egalitarianism, and individualism run amok. Birthrates have been declining in western countries that have adopted American ideology, and swung to secularism/humanism too much. In Russia they have the most severe birthrate crisis out there due to legalizing abortion early on, and same with Japan and South Korea. It's gotten so bad that some western countries, led by Neoliberalism, destabilize or try to 3rd world countries that are mainly theocratic, in which they can and do reproduce replacement numbers. This is one factor of mass immigration that's also causing most people a headache to deal with.

   We need less or limited democracy, not more of it. More of it will degrade the social fabric of a nation faster, leading to anarchy and too many voices. Also, unlikely Trump may win this election, so IMO a bunch of left wing fear mongering.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Wow, read the comments.

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Hehe .

 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Europe going the same route. Maube all this movement is a Survivalist reaction for the Chaos. Humans tend to become more Conservative when survival is at stake and with Climate Change on our ass is possible that thats why people start idolizing strongmen. Remember the people were tricked by Ditactors in difficult societal times. 

 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Hehe .

 

The notion that normal people are being over-regulated is such nonsense. No American is waking up and saying to himself, "You know what the problem with my life is? That's government is overregulating me." It's corporate wolves and lobbiests who care about regulation.

The biggest regulations placed on ordinary people has been from the right: abortion bans, porn bans, drug bans.

Edited July 3 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Leo Gura regulations based on Ideological Bias. And of course this Organizations are not satisfied in put their dominant hands only on American lifes. America loves to export its own sickness, unregard of the Developmental Stages of other Countries.

 

[Etherial Cat]

10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Etherial Cat

   The main reason why is that there's such a thing as too much multiculturalism, feminism, egalitarianism, and individualism run amok. Birthrates have been declining in western countries that have adopted American ideology, and swung to secularism/humanism too much. In Russia they have the most severe birthrate crisis out there due to legalizing abortion early on, and same with Japan and South Korea. It's gotten so bad that some western countries, led by Neoliberalism, destabilize or try to 3rd world countries that are mainly theocratic, in which they can and do reproduce replacement numbers. This is one factor of mass immigration that's also causing most people a headache to deal with.

   We need less or limited democracy, not more of it. More of it will degrade the social fabric of a nation faster, leading to anarchy and too many voices. Also, unlikely Trump may win this election, so IMO a bunch of left wing fear mongering.

Unfortunately, you are doing exactly what I have mentioned in my post. 

I find it perplexing how advocating for policies that restrict women's autonomy and support forced pregnancy could make someone appear attractive or desirable to date.

If you were seeking a partner, I'm certain you wouldn't want to go on a date with me if I were trying to coerce you into things you don't want to do. Moreover, blaming society's current collapse on your supposed lack of complacency, while simultaneously being oblivious to the actual sequence of cause and effect that generates the root cause of the problem would add up seriously to how unattractive one would appear.

Anyway, getting back to the topic... Generally speaking, the lower the quality of my life and the less optimistic I am about the future prospects for humanity, the less desire I have to reproduce.

In all these countries you've mentioned by name (which are largely governed by men, with men bearing most of the significant responsibility in terms of political, economic, and societal policies and power), both genders suffer, and many people are anxious about taking on more responsibilities in such uncertain times. Babies are typically conceived during times of prosperity or moments of euphoria, or at least when there are actual social policies that facilitate conditions for families.

Failing societies that need offspring to survive often attempt to coerce women into reproducing by suppressing or controlling their reproductive rights.

They resort to these measures because they are desperately unattractive—unable to provide for, or meet the actual needs of its citizens.