Gaining muscle = waste of time

[Danioover9000]

@numbersinarow

2 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

If you want material things and are going to play the maya game, having your body look toned with muscle is one of the best options to go for.

My arms are maybe twice as big as when I was in high school and if I could go back in time, would I come up with some excuse to not work out? No, of course not. For anyone wondering, I think that faster running made most of the progress, with the recent progress being from pullups.

You very likely don't want to still be skinny or fat or have flabby muscles 4 years from now, and you can work on that. You should likely work on that if you want to play the maya game.

It takes way less effort to maintain than to gain that kind of body too.

   Or prioritizing on that mind muscle connection. Sure it's good in Maya game to have muscle size, but if you have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support that muscle size well it will be bad. Better be working more on flexing and doing isometrics first, that way if you did change your mind you at least stimulated some muscles but more important the tendons and ligaments get stronger. Still want muscle size? Well now at least you have stronger bones, joints, tendons and ligaments to support that size.

[CARDOZZO]

Become a hybrid athlete. 

lift, run, swim, biking, yoga, qi-gong.

[NoSelfSelf]

8 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@numbersinarow

   Or prioritizing on that mind muscle connection. Sure it's good in Maya game to have muscle size, but if you have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support that muscle size well it will be bad. Better be working more on flexing and doing isometrics first, that way if you did change your mind you at least stimulated some muscles but more important the tendons and ligaments get stronger. Still want muscle size? Well now at least you have stronger bones, joints, tendons and ligaments to support that size.

How does one get stronger bones,tendons if its not lifting with submaximal weights?

[VictorB02]

About to head the gym in Bali, and I agree with a lot of points here.

Definitely a difference between a gym rat and someone who is going to stay fit and keep everything in proper order and running smoothly.

I used to be a hardcore gym rat in high school and it was 100% insecurity masquerading as strength and macho-ness.

Now I go to "top off" my health and keep everything together. Plus it feels great when you are done, lots of natural endorphins and things are released.

If I don't stay consistent I start to feel very frail, weak, and I get weird neck and back pains (had a ton of injuries from playing football in high school, so that's a factor too.)

I just find that it's a solid supplement to a healthy lifestyle and diet - but living in the gym and obsessing over macros and body fat % while eating whey protein for breakfast, creatine for dinner, and injecting yourself with testosterone when you're in your 20's is a different thing.

Some weird man insecurity thing. 

Probably why the biggest and most jacked dudes in the gym always act the most insecure. 

Edited July 8 by VictorB02

[numbersinarow]

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

Sure it's good in Maya game to have muscle size

It's good to not be too small. It's literally bad to be a tryhard-looking guy who is too stiff to fight AKA engage in self-defense.

+ it's potentially amazing, not just good, for lifting someone out of depression, to be in shape, and there's no questioning that it makes you more attractive to girls.

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

but if you have weak tendons and ligaments that can't support that muscle size well it will be bad.

In order to gain that kind of muscle size you will need resistance training most of the time, which has been proven to strengthen tendons.

[VictorB02]

15 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

About to head the gym in Bali, and I agree with a lot of points here.

Definitely a difference between a gym rat and someone who is going to stay fit and keep everything in proper order and running smoothly.

I used to be a hardcore gym rat in high school and it was 100% insecurity masquerading as strength and macho-ness.

Now I go to "top off" my health and keep everything together. Plus it feels great when you are done, lots of natural endorphins and things are released.

If I don't stay consistent I start to feel very frail, weak, and I get weird neck and back pains (had a ton of injuries from playing football in high school, so that's a factor too.)

I just find that it's a solid supplement to a healthy lifestyle and diet - but living in the gym and obsessing over macros and body fat % while eating whey protein for breakfast, creatine for dinner, and injecting yourself with testosterone when you're in your 20's is a different thing.

Some weird man insecurity thing. 

Probably why the biggest and most jacked dudes in the gym always act the most insecure. 

Also if you are legit into the sport side of lifting like powerlifting or Olympic lifting then I see that as a different thing than straight gym rats. I could see the benefit of challenging yourself in that way especially if you are already really strong and have a knack for it.

I need to stop make brash generalizations, lol.

But yeah, definitely something weird happening culturally there in the gym, seems the past 10-20 years it’s really exploded in the west. 

[VictorB02]

12 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

 

+ it's potentially amazing, not just good, for lifting someone out of depression, to be in shape, and there's no questioning that it makes you more attractive to girls.

Definitely can get you out of a depression. To add some deliberate challenge is good for the mind.
 

And I think it’s attractive to girls because it’s an indication of discipline, good hygiene, and fertility. I doubt many girls are actually attracted to 6 packs and muscles. Although some may. 

[Danioover9000]

@NoSelfSelf

On 2024-07-08 at 7:00 AM, NoSelfSelf said:

How does one get stronger bones,tendons if its not lifting with submaximal weights?

   By flexing and doing isometrics. Increasing that mind muscle connection first. Any other program is good, but prioritize mind muscle connection.

[Danioover9000]

@numbersinarow

On 2024-07-08 at 0:34 PM, numbersinarow said:

It's good to not be too small. It's literally bad to be a tryhard-looking guy who is too stiff to fight AKA engage in self-defense.

+ it's potentially amazing, not just good, for lifting someone out of depression, to be in shape, and there's no questioning that it makes you more attractive to girls.

In order to gain that kind of muscle size you will need resistance training most of the time, which has been proven to strengthen tendons.

   Yes, but that is secondary to mind muscle connection and flexing routines. You can get that with all sorts of resistance training, but if you not careful and increase muscle size beyond what bones, joints, ligaments and tendons are used to you may snap them. Happens and is common in those body builder modern programs.

[Schizophonia]

15 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Definitely can get you out of a depression. To add some deliberate challenge is good for the mind.
 

And I think it’s attractive to girls because it’s an indication of discipline, good hygiene, and fertility. I doubt many girls are actually attracted to 6 packs and muscles. Although some may. 

Women don’t want a guy who spends his time looking in the mirror and watching his food constantly. They want a normal physique. And vice versa actually.

 

 

Edited July 9 by Schizophonia

[NoSelfSelf]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@NoSelfSelf

   By flexing and doing isometrics. Increasing that mind muscle connection first. Any other program is good, but prioritize mind muscle connection.

Im curious where did you get that information, since what they thaught me at school is that bones get stronger by repeated hits of muscle on the bone with full range of motion flexing.I guess isometrics does it too but takes longer probably better for tendons i assume?

[VictorB02]

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Women don’t want a guy who spends his time looking in the mirror and watching his food constantly. They want a normal physique. And vice versa actually.

I agree. Cue dad bod phenomena.

[Scholar]

When I see gym-bros I usually just see insecurity, it's becoming pretty unattractive to me in general.

Edited July 11 by Scholar

[gambler]

52 minutes ago, Scholar said:

When I see gym-bros I usually just see insecurity, it's becoming pretty unattractive to me in general.

same with the gym-sistas?

[Carl-Richard]

On 9.7.2024 at 6:18 PM, Schizophonia said:

Women don’t want a guy who spends his time looking in the mirror and watching his food constantly. They want a normal physique. And vice versa actually.

What's a normal physique?

[Scholar]

24 minutes ago, gambler said:

same with the gym-sistas?

Yep, but in those cases I also am not a particular fan of the fit-look.

 

What is unattractive to me is mostly what is communicated through this type of signalling. It tells me about the mind of the person and their values. Obviously this is not universally the case, but in general it's a negative signal to me.

[integral]

It’s all about Olympic rings

[eos_nyxia]

As a woman, toward men: I wouldn’t enjoy being with a man who is far more neurotically preoccupied with his looks than It am. I happened once; I wasn’t a fan.

I have no pretense of speaking for other women, but personally, I find it more attractive when people are into some specific discipline, whether a sport, martial arts, or strength athletics, rather than general gym rattery (aesthetics-centered training).

There is a sweet spot of being disciplined but also chill about the body. Also, having a certain body awareness developed through large amounts of time, focused and dedicated to exploring and training the body and nervous system often helps people establish physical presence. There is a sort of grounded confidence that comes from the experience of making the body more lived-in. At this level: you walk differently, hold your posture differently, you think of yourself and your body differently; it's part of your embodied identity. Being sufficiently committed to a physical discipline inevitably develops your character as well in certain ways. This is a sort of "yogic" or mind/body centered mindset.

Some people are good at and develop these skills very early in life during childhood; they tend to be the natural athletes.

That confidence might not even carry over fully in terms of sexual and social self-esteem, but there is still something there. That is attractive, though that alone won’t make me attracted to someone. It’s just one of many attractive traits.

Natural but strong and agile body types are more attractive, overall. Strength and the physique as a result of DOING are also more attractive and interesting overall to me, because they live life. Like "farm boy" strength. Doesn't even necessarily have to "look strong" either. Training for aesthetics on the side is no real issue though.

But then, people of similar ethos tend to flock together. Personally, I'm not naturally athletic or hardy at all; it's all learned, and I'm STILL susceptible to overuse injuries, so a self-numbing "no pain no gain" mentality is a quick route to chronic pain and injuries. My only real skill growing up was flexibility, lol. Some people's bodies and joints are built like a tank though.

Still, I appreciate both people who have these traits naturally and those who work extremely hard to have some sort of athleticism.

Edited July 12 by eos_nyxia

[eos_nyxia]

Though TBH, working out and being as physical as I am right now doesn't actually make me feel better about being in my body, on a purely raw, physical level. It does take up a lot of physical, mental, and emotional energy, and I've always been extremely sensitive to physical sensations and basically anything going on in my body.

Arguably I could do much much more with that same energy when it comes to mental or creative pursuits, so when I tend to get very body-focused, it tends to cap me in other areas. It seems to have something to do with how my body and brain are built in this lifetime; I make the best of my starting set of strengths, weaknesses, and limitations.  Honestly, I have the most energy speed walking everywhere, doing a little bit of yoga, having the most bare-bones strength routine (in terms of both frequency and overall training volume), getting lots of rest and managing my stress levels very carefully.  

In terms of how it feels physically, at an emotional level: I really, really don't like being flabby and weak. Especially skinny, small, and weak. My body feels "unstructured" at a raw physical level. I don't like feeling not physically capable in my everyday life and I really do not like attracting predators or men who are specifically attracted to weakness in a woman (I question if they're the same sort of guys that seek out women with eating disorders, neurodivergent women, and/or very young women). Unfortunately, that was my childhood, and there is no more powerful negative motivator to work out than this.

In terms of pure vanity on a personal level: I don't like feeling shapeless, and worry about this more than I should.  At my lowest weights, it's almost always because I stop eating because of stress or some severe mental health crisis in the past. I don't care if anyone liked the way I looked then; I didn't. It's not my ideal. And in general, people should keep their comments to themselves because you probably don't know what a person is dealing with mentally or physically, and you're probably gonna put your foot in your mouth.

On a purely aesthetic level, skinny/ thin can look good and healthy on a variety people, and I don't judge people according to the standards which I judge myself. At all.

On a collective social level: associating skinniness with being "higher class" can go straight to hell where it belongs. (Again, mostly a thing directed toward women, but also occasionally towards men to a lesser degree.) I came of age in the early-mid 2000s. The Y2K-era aesthetic for women was either skinny, or skinny with big boobs. It was not yet cool to be female-bodied wanting to get stronger lifting weights; weight lifting for women was super niche. Women were actively afraid of getting "too muscular", and there was none of that social media, “strong is the new skinny” mindset yet. Still, even that ultimately boils down to replacing one aesthetic with another.

Despite that, I evaded being brainwashed by culture, and started training anyway. I guess this is a long-winded way of saying to train for yourself, and to find some deeper, more sustainable meaning to it. It can all mean whatever you want it to mean that you are capable of making it mean.

Edited July 12 by eos_nyxia

[Schizophonia]

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What's a normal physique?

Having a normal BMI