Presidential Debate + RFK

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

Hey Leo,

I just listened to the first episode of Conscious Politics, where you criticize isolationist policies. Why do you believe the USA should withdraw its support for Ukraine? Wouldn't that be an isolationist policy? Maybe you think the European Union alone should support Ukraine? 

It would take 50 other withdrawals for the US to actually be isolationist. The US operates like an empire. So we have a long way to go to isolation.

The US is pushing NATO expansion too aggressively, which has needlessly provoked Putin. There is no need to be so paranoid and provocative. Putin needs to be given some room otherwise many people will die.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Leo Gura

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It would take 50 other withdrawals for the US to actually be isolationist. The US operates like an empire. So we have a long way to go to isolation.

The US is pushing NATO expansion too aggressively, which has needlessly provoked Putin. There is no need to be so paranoid and provocative. Putin needs to be given some room otherwise many people will die.

And Project 2025 sounds like the empires next latest hit album. From the Project 2025 mandate :

''In a world on fire, a handful of nations require heightened attention. Some represent existential threats to the safety and security of the American people; others threaten to hurt the U.S. economy; and others are wild cards, whose full threat scope is unknown but nevertheless unsettling. The five countries on which the next Administration should focus its attention and energy are China, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and North Korea.''

A country flanked by vast seas they control, a ally to its north and a subservient to its South, are soooo at risk, existentially as well. Notice how these "threats" conveniently align with countries that challenge U.S. hegemony or sit on resources.

The US has over 750 military bases in at least 80 countries. That's not a defensive posture; it's a chokehold on global geopolitics. One or two withdrawals isn't isolation, it's a tactical reshuffling of the empire's chess pieces.

Edited July 4, 2024 by zazen

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Robert Kennedy is the only one talking about the real issue.  In this case, the banksters who have bought up all the market now buying up all the single family homes.  You can't really be free if you are an economic slave.   The Republican vs Democrat clown show is a deflection of how wealth is being concentrated by a parasitic class that games the system and doesn't provide real productive value. 

 

 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/already-own-89-p-500-113144903.html

This. It's a cultural cage match, not a political choice of 'oh this policy of such and such will do my country or myself any good'. Instead its 'this party and person tickles my tribalistic tendencies and makes me fuzzy inside with a sense of belonging to a identity.'

People aren't just voting for who they like, as much as they are voting for who they hate. Foreign policy and domestic oligarchic vampirism remains the same (how many wars started during Obamas time) - the overwhelming majority of the empire's abusiveness happens outside the borders of the US whilst within its borders domestically trivial things change. 

A shiny new social program here or a progressive sounding slogan there. While people are arguing over pronouns and plastic straws, the oligarchs are cleaning up middle America and democratic foundations faster than that Hawk Tuah girl went viral - thats a consistent no ones able to vote against.

Its not just about left vs right but about top vs bottom. Soft feudalism with a ''democratic'' coat of paint. The parasitic elite don't build without extracting. They don't produce without manipulating. They don't affect change without it benefiting the few at the expense of the many.

Edited July 4, 2024 by zazen

[Davino]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Politics in a capitalist democracy is not about finding excellence, intelligence, or wisdom. It's about finding the lowest common denominator that people are willing to live with, who is corrupt enough to give his supporters rewards for donating to him.

Shocked 

How are we getting out of this situation? What should be done if democracy is used by ignorance and devils to shoot everyone in the foot?

I know these are all systemic problems but what can I do as an individual? What is my responsibility here? In a way I've always minded my own business so I can thrive independently of the geopolitical factors but I also feel like I'm looking to the other side shirking my responsibility.

 

 

 

[Yimpa]

@Davino 

[Amadeusz]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It would take 50 other withdrawals for the US to actually be isolationist. The US operates like an empire. So we have a long way to go to isolation.

The US is pushing NATO expansion too aggressively, which has needlessly provoked Putin. There is no need to be so paranoid and provocative. Putin needs to be given some room otherwise many people will die.

What about  2021 when US withdrawn troops from Middle East. Then he attacked in 2022. He's been given the room and still attacked.  Seems like it didn't work. 

[Danioover9000]

   Oh my god! This presidential debate just sucks overall!

   But at least from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, Trump is slightly better.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Danioover9000

[mrPixel]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   But at least from a debate and rhetoric standpoint, Trump is slightly better.

To be better in a debate don't you have to say things that are true?

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

2 minutes ago, mrPixel said:

To be better in a debate don't you have to say things that are true?

   No, to be better at debating you just need to appear rhetorically superior to your opponent. Just ask Hassan that. Debating really is a persuasion game, and Trump in this specific moment appears slightly better. That being said I still don't think he'll win, and this apocalypse mindset from the lefties fearing he'll win is just stupid.

[mrPixel]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

No, to be better at debating you just need to appear rhetorically superior to your opponent.

I think it depends on who you ask. Put two different people with opposing values in the same room and have them watch a debate. Each will tell you that the debate had a different outcome. I am concerned by those who watch a debate and care more about "strength" than they do truth.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

What is my responsibility here?

Vote and help educate others and raise awareness by speaking in a mature and intelligent manner.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Amadeusz said:

What about  2021 when US withdrawn troops from Middle East. Then he attacked in 2022. He's been given the room and still attacked.  Seems like it didn't work. 

The Middle East has nothing to do with Russia's doorstep.

[Yimpa]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Vote and help educate others and raise awareness by speaking in a mature and intelligent manner.

Testing that with family is a challenge.. may even require a cultural war, so to speak.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Yimpa

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

4 hours ago, mrPixel said:

I think it depends on who you ask. Put two different people with opposing values in the same room and have them watch a debate. Each will tell you that the debate had a different outcome. I am concerned by those who watch a debate and care more about "strength" than they do truth.

   It's a hard balance to strike. Being too for the truth will make you unpopular and fringe, but being too charismatic makes you fake. From my contemplations debating happens due to 2 egos having fundamental differences in their preferred lies they believe in. In order to make their beliefs and lies believable, they have to consensus reality around debate topics with an audience to persuade. Which is why I claimed rhetoric strength, in actuality, is what gets you somewhere than blunt truth. I wish it was different but it's the way of debates go, the way of SURVIVAL.

   To that end, best case we can hope and have faith for, is a smaller democracy. Like a Margaret Thatcher mixed with some democracy, like the Romans. Speaking about her, that's that I kind of mean with a smaller democracy being good and better than larger ones because we needed a decisive leader. During the Falk Island wars most of cabinet was divided and bickering about going to war with Argentina over Islands GB has. Margaret Thatcher decisively leads them to that conflict, because Argentina invaded those Islands that had some British people there. Not responding then would be seen as weakness by Argentina and they could've done worse.

[Nivsch]

Biden looks like a totally different person in comparison to 2020 debate.

[Zega]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:05 PM, Leo Gura said:

Newsom's political optics are so good. He really should have ran this cycle.

The problem is that so many other states maliciously hate California that people would probably vote against him in fear of the whole country being like CA. 

Living in CA myself, I don't like all of his policies or how he's handled some things but he's at least competent. I'd vote for him over Larry Elder for governor again any day. 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Zega

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Zega said:

so many other states maliciously hate California

That's just a right-wing narrative. Don't buy into it.

California is so overpopulated because it has been the most successful state in the country.

Red states dream of California's success.

Yes, California has it's problems but most states do. The whole US is not gonna turn into California because California has a progressive supermajority. We have the opposite problem nationally.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Heaven]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just a right-wing narrative. Don't buy into it.

California is so overpopulated because it has been the most successful state in the country.

Red states dream of California's success.

Yes, California has it's problems but most states do. The whole US is not gonna turn into California because California has a progressive supermajority.

California is the best example of how bad the left/woke can be.

From personal experience it became so bad to live there. Crime, homelessness, taxes, prices etc..

You also left Cali and for a good reason 

[Danioover9000]

@Yimpa

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Testing that with family is a challenge.. may even require a cultural war, so to speak.

   Only do that if you're prepared to part ways with the family.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Heaven said:

California is the best example of how bad the left/woke can be.

From personal experience it became so bad to live there. Crime, homelessness, taxes, prices etc..

You also left Cali and for a good reason 

The only problem I got with Cali is that it is overpriced and overcrowded because everyone would love to live there.

Of course you gotta find the right areas. There are plenty of bad areas. But OC is great.

Cali traffic is bad, but so is Austin traffic. Austin is full of homeless too.

Edited July 5, 2024 by Leo Gura