Presidential Debate + RFK

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And Trump is the backlash to that victory. Congrats.

You guys are living in liberal fantasy land. Your wokeness is gonna land you in a  Christian dictatorship.

The centrists were the ones who lost to trump in 2016 and are now trying to force a man who can barely talk to challenge him, maybe it’s time the wokes get a shot. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 29/06/2024 at 6:59 AM, Leo Gura said:

More frail than solid.

His whispering voice is like a deflated balloon. Really bad optics for a leader. He's like a car with 500,000 miles. You're not sure if it will get you to the store, nevermind a roadtrip.

They've done political science of how dictators get deposed. It often happens when they get so old optically that everyone around them gets shaky and starts looking for a replacement. This is why authoritarians always try to project physical strength, virility, and hide any of their health problems. Because as soon as a doubt is raised people get shaky and scheme for a replacement.

make lots of sense, humans are animals anyway. in the end is the indirect signs that count. 

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura What do you think of Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky? He easily won two elections in a very conservative state.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Raze said:

maybe it’s time the wokes get a shot. 

Mainstream people do not like wokes. So, no, that won't work.

Wokes are deluded enough to think people like them. High on their own woke farts.

Every nation has an asymmetrical bias towards its own traditional culture. If you try to go against that you will regret it.

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Leo Gura What do you think of Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky? He easily won two elections in a very conservative state.

I don't know enough about him. Would need to research.

[Vrubel]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

 

Edited July 2, 2024 by Vrubel

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

Its interesting. I have an assumption they are the rebels against the traditions but from below at the seam line between Blue and Red.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

1) That's one of the reasons Communism ultimately collapsed. Because it undermined traditional culture.

2) A totalitarian state is so powerful it can do lots of unpopular stuff. Today's authoritarianism is not totalitarian.

3) Islam IS the traditional culture in Iran now. So pre-Islamic stuff is not important to them. This is like asking why Americans destroy Native American culture.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[hundreth]

I don't believe we necessarily need to bring in the wokes, but there are other left-center candidates out there we can push forward. I remember around 2007 / 2008 when Barack campaigned almost no one had ever heard of him. He was fresh, he was well spoken, and he won.

We don't need a known quantity or a radical extremist - just someone younger, normal and decent.

I also find it amusing that before last week it was all about Trump & Biden. Now suddenly we're all hearing about project 2025, the supreme court ruling, it's justices and all that. We're going to hide Biden behind these fears.

The fears are valid, but may not be enough to counteract the fears around Biden himself. Is he even capable of running the country this very minute? Who the fuck is in charge right now?? It's a rudderless ship. What happens when he dies midway through his next term? This creates a lot of uncertainty and doubt, arguably as bad or worse than the fears around Trump and the supreme court justices.

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

Authoritarian regimes can pander to traditional culture to gain legitimacy. Totalitarian regimes destroy it to enforce new ideologies and consolidate power.

Authoritarians are content to control the political sphere and leave some aspects of personal life untouched. Totalitarians got a PHD in micromanagement and want total control over a society - public, personal and political.

Totalitarian regimes don’t just run the government, they run your life. You’re not just a citizen, but a walking billboard for their ideology. Their leader isn’t just great, their God.

Authoritarians are cultural pick pockets, using tradition and cultural aspects to gain control - their drug dealers in nostalgia. Totalitarians want your soul and to re-shape culture completely - their drug dealers in Utopia.

This is also why stage green isn’t exempt from madness. They can be totalitarian and tribalize - they just tribalize around green values. Gaia warriors will have us starving because our carbon footprints are bigger than big foot.

Edited July 2, 2024 by zazen

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Mainstream people do not like wokes. So, no, that won't work.

Wokes are deluded enough to think people like them. High on their own woke farts.

Every nation has an asymmetrical bias towards its own traditional culture. If you try to go against that you will regret it.

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

But how does Biden represent traditional culture? He’s been pushing the same lgtbq, trans, blm, feminist messaging which is considered woke.

He doesn’t necessarily back it up with action, so the wokes don’t like him either.

People who don’t like woke, don’t like Biden either.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

He’s been pushing the same lgtbq, trans, blm, feminist messaging which is considered woke.

He hasn't been pushing it much. He just recognizes the decency of it.

But yeah, even that decency is precieved as too woke by half the country who want all LGBTQ people to live in a basement.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And Trump is the backlash to that victory. Congrats.

You guys are living in liberal fantasy land. Your wokeness is gonna land you in a  Christian dictatorship.

That's not the only reason why Trump got elected in 2016. 

It's also because too many Americans felt like that Obama and Democrats felt like they let them down by not doing enough for them during Obama's 2nd term as president, Hillary Clinton did not have the incumbency advantage, and Hillary Clinton ran against Trump in an open seat for president, while the Democrats held the White House, and didn't run as a true heir apparent of Obama, whom all Democrats in the country were willing to united under. All of that made her and her entire party made her look really bad as a candidate.

It was further because Obama and Democrats failed to build their party's coalition like successful party building presidents such as FDR during the New Deal era did or the way that Ronald Reagan did for the Republican part during the 80s and 90s. Obama was too afraid of being a partisan advocate like FDR or Reagan were. Obama should've used the power of his presidency to message with liberal populist rhetoric repeatedly to continue winning over more and more and more support of the people for a modern liberal vision that would be broadly appeal to the general populace like the way FDR did during his time. Also, a lot of people didn't like how Obama didn't come off as emotionally honest and instead came off too often as too cerebral and aloof.

Moreover, the Democratic party for decades have kept playing into the hands of the Republican narrative for the sake of "bipartisanship" and "moderation." 

Furthermore, the mainstream media and left-wing media outlets failed to combat the influence of the right-wing media that has dominated the news coverage in the US since the 90s.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Of course there are many factors at play.

[Scholar]

On 2.7.2024 at 0:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

I don't see Ukraine as existential. The US has way too much influence in that region where it doesn't belong. The US is overreaching and causing needless trouble for itself. Backing off with NATO is the wisest course of action. There is no threat to the US or NATO from Russia. That is paranoia.

The US is overreaching by providing military aid to a country that is being invaded by one of the US's primary adverseries while the US has contractually binded itself to protect Ukraine's integrity for giving up it's nuclear arsenal?

There are so many things wrong with this, it's not even worth getting into.

Edited July 2, 2024 by Scholar

[abundance]

I would love to see a Whitmer replace Biden. She's my governor and she's awesome. Also, with abortion being on the ballot it will bring out the suburban mom vote.

Unfortunately, America has regressed a bit and is too steeped in racism for Kamala or Michelle Obama to take Biden's place. The only downside is that if Kamala is skipped over it may risk depressing the black vote (who're the bedrock of the Democratic Party). It will be seen as deeply unfair but it's a necessary evil for the good of the country.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, abundance said:

It will be seen as deeply unfair

Kamala would be selected if she was popular or talented. But she is not. So it is fair.

[abundance]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Kamala would be selected if she was popular or talented. But she is not. So it is fair.

much agreed. It's the perception of it being unfair by a sizeable voting bloc that I worry about slightly.

[hundreth]

Blow. Out.

[Leo Gura]

Breaking Points is so bad. They are brainwashing their whole audience to not vote for Biden.

Breaking Points alone can get Trump reelected. Irresponsible hosts.

Edited July 3, 2024 by Leo Gura