Presidential Debate + RFK

[Jodistrict]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Dem party certainly shoots itself in the foot with poor candidates. Candidate quality is key to winning elections.

They have no good replacement for Biden other than Gavin Newsom. Everyone else is a pathetic piece of wet white bread.

I have heard rumors that Michelle Obama would have the best chance of being elected.  The problem is that the Democratic party is an authoritarian top down system that filters candidates that are acceptable to the elites.   Instead of democracy which is bottom up and allows qualified candidates to emerge.  The last emperor of Rome was a boy.  Do you think that Rome had no other more qualified candidates?  Or was the problem the system for selection?

[Leo Gura]

Michelle Obama would not win. This is a silly idea.

You want to put a black woman vs Trump in a country of Christian nationalists and white supremcists? You're nuts if you think she would win.

Edited July 2 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Michelle Obama would not win. This is a silly idea.

You want to put a black woman vs Trump in a country of Christian nationalists and white supremcists? You're nuts if you think she would win.

Obama, a black man won against stronger candidates than trump 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Obama, a black man won against stronger candidates than trump 

And Trump is the backlash to that victory. Congrats.

You guys are living in liberal fantasy land. Your wokeness is gonna land you in a  Christian dictatorship.

Edited July 2 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

@Raze But he is a man and he won in times when Iraq problems were at the peak.

[mmKay]

i miss obama

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And Trump is the backlash to that victory. Congrats.

You guys are living in liberal fantasy land. Your wokeness is gonna land you in a  Christian dictatorship.

The centrists were the ones who lost to trump in 2016 and are now trying to force a man who can barely talk to challenge him, maybe it’s time the wokes get a shot. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 29/06/2024 at 6:59 AM, Leo Gura said:

More frail than solid.

His whispering voice is like a deflated balloon. Really bad optics for a leader. He's like a car with 500,000 miles. You're not sure if it will get you to the store, nevermind a roadtrip.

They've done political science of how dictators get deposed. It often happens when they get so old optically that everyone around them gets shaky and starts looking for a replacement. This is why authoritarians always try to project physical strength, virility, and hide any of their health problems. Because as soon as a doubt is raised people get shaky and scheme for a replacement.

make lots of sense, humans are animals anyway. in the end is the indirect signs that count. 

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura What do you think of Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky? He easily won two elections in a very conservative state.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Raze said:

maybe it’s time the wokes get a shot. 

Mainstream people do not like wokes. So, no, that won't work.

Wokes are deluded enough to think people like them. High on their own woke farts.

Every nation has an asymmetrical bias towards its own traditional culture. If you try to go against that you will regret it.

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

Edited July 2 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Leo Gura What do you think of Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky? He easily won two elections in a very conservative state.

I don't know enough about him. Would need to research.

[Vrubel]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

 

Edited July 2 by Vrubel

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

Its interesting. I have an assumption they are the rebels against the traditions but from below at the seam line between Blue and Red.

Edited July 2 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

1) That's one of the reasons Communism ultimately collapsed. Because it undermined traditional culture.

2) A totalitarian state is so powerful it can do lots of unpopular stuff. Today's authoritarianism is not totalitarian.

3) Islam IS the traditional culture in Iran now. So pre-Islamic stuff is not important to them. This is like asking why Americans destroy Native American culture.

Edited July 2 by Leo Gura

[hundreth]

I don't believe we necessarily need to bring in the wokes, but there are other left-center candidates out there we can push forward. I remember around 2007 / 2008 when Barack campaigned almost no one had ever heard of him. He was fresh, he was well spoken, and he won.

We don't need a known quantity or a radical extremist - just someone younger, normal and decent.

I also find it amusing that before last week it was all about Trump & Biden. Now suddenly we're all hearing about project 2025, the supreme court ruling, it's justices and all that. We're going to hide Biden behind these fears.

The fears are valid, but may not be enough to counteract the fears around Biden himself. Is he even capable of running the country this very minute? Who the fuck is in charge right now?? It's a rudderless ship. What happens when he dies midway through his next term? This creates a lot of uncertainty and doubt, arguably as bad or worse than the fears around Trump and the supreme court justices.

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

What about communist dictators that destroyed traditional culture? Russia, China etc. They destroyed churches and priceless artifacts. Also in Iran the regime wanted to destroy Persian archeological sites because they were deemed "Unislamic".

Authoritarian regimes can pander to traditional culture to gain legitimacy. Totalitarian regimes destroy it to enforce new ideologies and consolidate power.

Authoritarians are content to control the political sphere and leave some aspects of personal life untouched. Totalitarians got a PHD in micromanagement and want total control over a society - public, personal and political.

Totalitarian regimes don’t just run the government, they run your life. You’re not just a citizen, but a walking billboard for their ideology. Their leader isn’t just great, their God.

Authoritarians are cultural pick pockets, using tradition and cultural aspects to gain control - their drug dealers in nostalgia. Totalitarians want your soul and to re-shape culture completely - their drug dealers in Utopia.

This is also why stage green isn’t exempt from madness. They can be totalitarian and tribalize - they just tribalize around green values. Gaia warriors will have us starving because our carbon footprints are bigger than big foot.

Edited July 2 by zazen

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Mainstream people do not like wokes. So, no, that won't work.

Wokes are deluded enough to think people like them. High on their own woke farts.

Every nation has an asymmetrical bias towards its own traditional culture. If you try to go against that you will regret it.

The one thing all authortarians do right is that they pander to the local traditional culture. And that is how they hold power. Wokes are too self-absorbed to understand this because they live in their woke bubbles.

But how does Biden represent traditional culture? He’s been pushing the same lgtbq, trans, blm, feminist messaging which is considered woke.

He doesn’t necessarily back it up with action, so the wokes don’t like him either.

People who don’t like woke, don’t like Biden either.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

He’s been pushing the same lgtbq, trans, blm, feminist messaging which is considered woke.

He hasn't been pushing it much. He just recognizes the decency of it.

But yeah, even that decency is precieved as too woke by half the country who want all LGBTQ people to live in a basement.

Edited July 2 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And Trump is the backlash to that victory. Congrats.

You guys are living in liberal fantasy land. Your wokeness is gonna land you in a  Christian dictatorship.

That's not the only reason why Trump got elected in 2016. 

It's also because too many Americans felt like that Obama and Democrats felt like they let them down by not doing enough for them during Obama's 2nd term as president, Hillary Clinton did not have the incumbency advantage, and Hillary Clinton ran against Trump in an open seat for president, while the Democrats held the White House, and didn't run as a true heir apparent of Obama, whom all Democrats in the country were willing to united under. All of that made her and her entire party made her look really bad as a candidate.

It was further because Obama and Democrats failed to build their party's coalition like successful party building presidents such as FDR during the New Deal era did or the way that Ronald Reagan did for the Republican part during the 80s and 90s. Obama was too afraid of being a partisan advocate like FDR or Reagan were. Obama should've used the power of his presidency to message with liberal populist rhetoric repeatedly to continue winning over more and more and more support of the people for a modern liberal vision that would be broadly appeal to the general populace like the way FDR did during his time. Also, a lot of people didn't like how Obama didn't come off as emotionally honest and instead came off too often as too cerebral and aloof.

Moreover, the Democratic party for decades have kept playing into the hands of the Republican narrative for the sake of "bipartisanship" and "moderation." 

Furthermore, the mainstream media and left-wing media outlets failed to combat the influence of the right-wing media that has dominated the news coverage in the US since the 90s.

Edited July 2 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Of course there are many factors at play.