Should women be allowed to falsely accuse men?

[mr_engineer]

Hi everyone, 

I want all of your opinions on this one. (Especially Leo's) This is a good one. 

Should women be allowed to falsely accuse men of things they've not done? 

[Princess Arabia]

I see you're still on this. Still in the loop. Good to see you're still alive and kicking.

To answer your question, maybe you should have added "without consequences" to your question because anybody will do whatever; but what's the consequence. Should there be a consequence; and what should the consequence be if found to be the case that it was a false accusation. 

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I see you're still on this. Still in the loop. Good to see you're still alive and kicking.

To answer your question, maybe you should have added "without consequences" to your question because anybody will do whatever; but what's the consequence. Should there be a consequence; and what should the consequence be if found to be the case that it was a false accusation. 

Oh, consequences are a long way off. 

My real question is - in principle, is it right or wrong to falsely accuse a man? Sometimes I get the sense here that people here would say that 'it's okay, why should we even give a shit about men? Are they oppressed?!' 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Oh, consequences are a long way off. 

My real question is - in principle, is it right or wrong to falsely accuse a man? Sometimes I get the sense here that people here would say that 'it's okay, why should we even give a shit about men? Are they oppressed?!' 

Of course it is wrong to falsely accuse anyone. Man or woman. Now what.

[mr_engineer]

Okay. Thanks for your input. 

I dare the true at-heart SJWs here to say 'If cancel-culture has some casualties, that's okay'. Anyone bold enough to say that on this thread? 

[NoSelfSelf]

Can you give us examples of specific things, general queastion like this wont really get the answers rolling,like its all situational and complex.

Like one could is woman accuse you of cheating because shes cheating.

Shes mad at you accuses you of something petty as why you not closed the door.But why she's mad really?

I came to notice this general queastions never really help you pragmatically, its not that easy.

Like its must be yes or no answer.Like we must come to yes box of thinking or no box of thinking.Now with all the answers and opinions we must come to conclusion its yes or no cant be that easy imo.

If we talk about game its you who decides and communicates the boundary in a situation of whats acceptable for you like :" dont accuse me of this" if she breaks that boundary shes gone thats the easiest answer.

 

Edited June 27 by NoSelfSelf

[aurum]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:31 AM, mr_engineer said:

Oh, consequences are a long way off. 

My real question is - in principle, is it right or wrong to falsely accuse a man? Sometimes I get the sense here that people here would say that 'it's okay, why should we even give a shit about men? Are they oppressed?!' 

This is some "but what about us poor men?" bullshit.

Of course false accusations are not okay. But there ARE already consequences for false accusations. Women already cannot just get away with saying whatever they want.

The reason society is pushing to believe women more and defaulting to trusting them is because for so long they were not. We have a deep societal history of sexual assault, which was just swept under the rug.

Women either said nothing about it due to fear, or because they knew no one would care / believe them.

Now we are moving to correct that. That's part of modern feminism.

And yes, it's going to get ugly for a small percentage of men who genuinely committed assault. That IS justice.

 

Edited June 28 by aurum

[PenguinPablo]

Some people will weaponize the pendulum swing. Like that black teacher that created a deepfake of the white principal saying racist shit. Situations like this are disgusting and completely undermine the fight towards equality whether it be race, gender, etc...

I think there should be consequences -- as long as the evidence is there to fully support

Edited June 28 by PenguinPablo

[mr_engineer]

11 hours ago, aurum said:

Of course false accusations are not okay. But there ARE already consequences for false accusations. Women already cannot just get away with saying whatever they want.

Let's say, you're standing behind a woman in a queue and, for shits and giggles, she decides to yell 'he touched my ass', pointing the finger at you. 

What 'consequences' would you be able to give to her for doing that? 

11 hours ago, aurum said:

And yes, it's going to get ugly for a small percentage of men. That IS justice.

What if it got ugly for you? What would you do? 

Edited June 28 by mr_engineer

[aurum]

9 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Let's say, you're standing behind a woman in a queue and, for shits and giggles, she decides to yell 'he touched my ass', pointing the finger at you. 

What 'consequences' would you be able to give to her for doing that? 

This is such an absurd “what if” scenario. As if women are intentionally out to get you.

If it did happen, the way you handle that is just be reasonable and apologize. Explain calmly and with care that you did not do that.

The consequences for both of you would probably be nothing because it’s not a serious situation.

In a more serious legal situation, we have defamation and false accusation laws. You cannot just lie in court.

9 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

What if it got ugly for you? What would you do? 

I would be devastated. There would be nothing I could do about it.

Which is part of the reason why it’s not a good idea to assault women.

Negative consequences are important for shaping pro-social behavior.

The best thing to do is just act with integrity in your relationships. 

Edited June 29 by aurum
edited for clarity

[mr_engineer]

14 minutes ago, aurum said:

I would be devastated. There would be nothing I could do about it.

Which is part of the reason why it’s probably not a good idea to assault women.

Negative consequences are important for shaping pro-social behavior.

The best thing to do is just act with integrity in your relationships. 

Oh, so you need to be falsely accused to drive the point home that 'it's not a good idea to assault women'. The fact that it's wrong isn't enough for you. Got it. 

16 minutes ago, aurum said:

This is such an absurd “what if” scenario. As if women are intentionally out to get you.

If it did happen, the way you handle that is just be reasonable and apologize. Explain calmly and with care that you did not do that.

The consequences for both of you would probably be nothing because it’s not a serious situation.

In a more serious legal situation, we have defamation and false accusation laws. You cannot just lie in court.

The problem is that the crowd around both of you would beat the crap out of you before you could be 'calm' about it. 

[aurum]

7 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Oh, so you need to be falsely accused to drive the point home that 'it's not a good idea to assault women'. The fact that it's wrong isn't enough for you. Got it. 

I am attempting to help show you a different way of thinking about this. Which obviously didn't translate.

Generalized anxiety about being falsely accused of something is real. I've experienced it before. So I empathize with that perspective.

If that happens, something that can be helpful is to realize that you are still in control of your behavior. You can be a person of integrity in your relationships. You can be someone that people trust. You can learn to navigate emotionally charged social situations with greater ease.

This empowers a person, rather than making you feel like they could be accused of something at any moment and that there's nothing they can do about it.

Also, if someone doesn't want to be accused of something, just don't do that thing. I've never been accused of tax fraud because I've never committed tax fraud. Works very well.

In addition, I've already pointed out we have legal ramifications for false accusations (defamation laws, lying under oath, burden of proof etc). And there are also non-legal, informal ramifications for false accusations in the form of social shaming, stigma etc. So it's not as if these things go unchecked.

I don't know what the scientific research on this question says, but I've certainly heard many anecdotes of women hesitating to report genuine cases of assault for this very reason.

Of course a false accusation is still possible. And that obviously is problematic if it happens. I do not support such behavior.

But the fear around this issue needs to be kept in perspective.

 Ask yourself: what is the bigger danger in society right now? Is it women making false accusations about men? Or is it women not being believed and listened to in cases of genuine assault?

Edited June 29 by aurum

[bebotalk]

We already hold a standing principle of not defaming others. 

So then, it should be illegal for a person of any sex and/or gender to falsely accuse another of rape or SA. 

It should further carry a HEAVY jail sentence if said allegations are false. 

 

[mr_engineer]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Ask yourself: what is the bigger danger in society right now? Is it women making false accusations about men? Or is it women not being believed and listened to in cases of genuine assault?

Both of these are two sides of the same coin, honestly. We don't believe real victims because of false accusations! 

The reality of false accusations is precisely why real victims aren't being believed. 

[Leo Gura]

You don't know if the accussation is false until you investigate it earnestly.

So watch your assumptions. A legal system exists for this reason.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[BlueOak]

Where a malicious motive can be undeniably proven: I've always thought the penalty for false accusations should be increased with the severity of the crime. This gets messy in irrational emotional situations and relationships, obviously. They are often not logical, and so that needs to be taken into account for in-the-moment snap decisions. For things that extend beyond the moment, though, the same rules should apply.
 

16 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Let's say, you're standing behind a woman in a queue and, for shits and giggles, she decides to yell 'he touched my ass', pointing the finger at you. 

What 'consequences' would you be able to give to her for doing that? 

What if it got ugly for you? What would you do? 

I thought you meant a violent sexual assault.

It depends on her tone. If there was proximity and I noticed that she genuinely believed it, I'd assure her honestly that I had not.

If she escalated irrationally, or I could see she was lying now to save face, I'd probably make a sarcastic joke. I'd shrug it off and continue on my way, leaving the irrational women behind. Don't give people like that your time, energy and focus.

[mr_engineer]

@Leo Gura Let's get back to the topic of the thread. 

I asked a question - is it ethical for a woman to falsely accuse a man? By 'ethical', I mean, socially. Legally, of course, we all have the right to sue each other. But socially, is it right? To jeopardize someone's life and career and safety, just because?! 

[aurum]

9 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Both of these are two sides of the same coin, honestly. We don't believe real victims because of false accusations! 

The reality of false accusations is precisely why real victims aren't being believed. 

That is a very small percentage of why real victims are not believed.

Most of it comes from victim-blaming and societal norms around assault.

If you believe what you wrote, then you’d probably benefit from reading some history specifically on this question.

It’s not a “girl who cried wolf” situation.

Just punch exactly what you said above in ChatGPT and see what it says.

[integral]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

But socially, is it right? To jeopardize someone's life and career and safety, just because?! 

No, the answer is obvious so why are you fixated on this question?

 

[mr_engineer]

12 minutes ago, integral said:

No, the answer is obvious so why are you fixated on this question?

 

Objectively, it's obvious. 

But, the level of dismissiveness people have to men reporting being falsely accused by women, got me thinking - is it socially acceptable to do this to men?! That's why the question.