Self Actualization I "should" Know Better By Now.

[LRyan]

I know that is not a word to ever use   -   "Should"........I think I am doing something very wrong in my seeking to better my self and my life. I have been putting in serious time, doing self inquiry, meditation, a lot of good things.  This forum has helped me come to such wisdom in ways that I wouldn't have bee able to realize.  I am like my own guru with a backup team here.  But, IF we make a huge mistake after we have done all this work, isn't it MORE painful because of all we know and then go ahead and make the same old mistake that you used to make?  WHY can't I ever really learn anything that will stick with me when I really truly need guidance?  It's like if I hadn't worked so hard to understand my self more I might have felt less pain because now I have the guilt that I SHOULD KNOW BETTER BY NOW!

Yesterday, I really made a fall back into the pit of suffering and nothing that I have learned or read or watched could help me stop it :(.  I am so disappointed in myself because  I KNOW better than to freak out, get mad, name call try to control a situation but I did all of that, mostly in texts as a response to an ignorant thing that my son in law did.  It's going to sound so silly and trivial to you all because you are not involved emotionally but my daughter's birthday is coming up and all she wants it to go away for one night to escape her very busy life.  Her husband who is neglectful to her and my granddaughter and who has a major drinking/chain smoking problem texts me AFTER he texted literally everyone else including my ex husband.....(I know that's when my ego came in)...he tells me almost as an afterthought that hes planned a big BBQ at my daughters house as a surprise and wants my help to distract her for a few hours.  He told me last, didn't tell my sister or my mother or brother so ignored her own family, but involved his own family and her friends.  He knows this is the exact opposite of what she wants, she's made it loud and clear that she needs a break.  He will end up drunk, her house will be wrecked and she will be miserable.  This bothers me so much I can't say how much!  I just want my kids to be happy.

After his text I offered to pay for their hotel and watch my grandchild for the entire weekend so that he could take her away like she wants.  She does not want her house trashed by a bunch of his drunk family members which always happens.

The point is that I freaked out texting my sister, telling her how ignorant he was to not even discuss this and ask me what I thought, I ended up telling my mother who is sick about this because she happened to call me right at this time.  She cannot stand this irresponsible, selfish person who promised he would stop drinking at their wedding and take good care of her.  He lied to all of us.  I called him a jerk, asshole, dick to anyone I could text about this.

Why did this happen?  For almost every other aspect of my life I am aware of my actions and can observe what I am doing and making sense out of my life but when it comes to my children, I can't do it.  

To make things worse, all night I felt so guilty because I thought I was on the path to Self Actualization and a deep awareness of myself and who I really am and that this is all being run by an intelligent system and what is happening is happening.  I told myself surrender to what is happening and just trust that this is right and maybe she has to suffer more to realize that he has taught her enough and move on to a life without an addict.

I feel so guilty that I was on a runaway train last night and I felt totally neurotic.  I picked up my books and came on here to look at videos in an attempt to take the"High Road" as Matt Kahn says....always take the high road, represent your very best kind self....... but how....how?

I might be approaching all of this seeking wrong because it  isn't getting through to me.  Have you heard of people that are just incapable of changing?  Maybe my ego is too strong.  Maybe I haven't suffered enough. I don't know what I need to do differently.  I'm very upset about this. Any input would help.  I want to stop this so much, it's my whole aim right now to feel good and do good and be whole and perfect as we were created...

Has anyone made any big mistakes after learning so many good things and after putting in some good hard work?  Is there a way back without the guilt?

I am so disillusioned.

Edited April 21, 2017 by LRyan

[philosogi]

@LRyan You will get another chance to live up to your own standards. You've probably heard this a million times but everyone makes mistakes. Are you a god yet? 

All you can do in a practical situation such as you have described if you want to stop it happening, is to put everything on the line and communicate your whole truth to the people involved. It works best if you can be un-judgmental when you do this communication. That is to say, be prepared to accept any outcome, reaction, or response. It doesn't guarantee the outcome you hope for. But if you're judgmental, negative, or angry when you communicate your truth (that is to say, if it's tainted by ego), then it has a lower chance of working. Your communication must convey the basic truth that you want what is best for her, and you have to leave your ego out of it. 

If you say you're on a Self-Actualization path, then you are. Doesn't matter how many mistakes you make; if you say you're on it, you're on it.

[philosogi]

On 4/21/2017 at 11:58 AM, LRyan said:

this is all being run by an intelligent system

 

@LRyan Also make sure you're not substituting ideas gotten from outside for your own truth. What evidence do you have that this is all being run by an intelligent system? What is this intelligent system? Does the intelligent system take away your agency?

[LRyan]

@philosogi  You are right in that I do not have good communication with some people, especially my son in law.  I am deep down angry at him that he promised to stop drinking and to be the best husband and father he can be and he has not done that and I have never stuck my nose in it, I have tried to help in other ways like making many calls to find out where he can get treatment and how to go about it.  I've offered my daughter to watch my granddaughter so SHE could go to an Alanon group to find out how she can cope.  She will not make any move to better her situation so I have waited on the side for her to decide to choose another life.  For this reason, I couldn't express my feelings to him, we are not close in an emotional way, just surface friendly.  I recently went on a 7 day caribbean trip with them and my granddaughter and I saw how dysfunctional their relationship.

I did interfere where I shouldn't have and it caused me so much stress and my daughter.  I told her about the surprise because I thought she would be stressed out if he did it that way and I caused a tsunami of bad blood and hell for all.

I told her because I really thought he would change his mind and take her away for one night.  He didn't and she said he was devastated and was crying when she told him she knew.  She also thought he would change his mind and take her away.

I received many angry texts from him Friday night where he was swearing at me, telling me I ruined the party and saying that was all he can afford right now.  My daughter also told me that she had been crying too because she felt bad for both of us because we were both trying to make her happy.

In the end, my daughter said they spent more on the BBQ.

I know this was all my fault. Period.  Lesson learned.  BUT I cannot listen to my daughter daily when she complains about how drunk and irresponsible he is and then refusing to do anything herself.  NO amount of spirituality will let me harm myself again in being the one to interfere and cause destruction.  My heart was in the right place, I was only trying to see that she was happy.

[LRyan]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:57 AM, philosogi said:

 

@LRyan Also make sure you're not substituting ideas gotten from outside for your own truth. What evidence do you have that this is all being run by an intelligent system? What is this intelligent system? Does the intelligent system take away your agency?

I'm just referring to the notion that we are all energy/consciousness and that I believe we are all part of an intelligent universal system where there are no accidents and everything has a purpose.  I can't prove that and you're right, it is a belief I have.  What do mean by take away my agency?  Can you please explain?

[LRyan]

12 hours ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

 years Sorry, maybe I am misunderstanding something: you said your son-in-law planned a party at your daughter's house? Does that mean they are married but don't live together? And if it's a surprise for your daughter, isn't it possible she might appreciate the effort her husband is making?

Sorry, I worded that wrong, they live together at their house....I said my daughter's house probably because subconsciously I might refer to it that way because she is the breadwinner and pays for almost everything.  A lot of his earnings go to his addictions.

Yes maybe she would have appreciated the thought of it.  That is true.

I know her..... and I think I know how she feels about him being drunk and leaving a mess to clean up.  The effort he made would be soon lost on the execution.  She complained to me on Saturday after going shopping for the BBQ with him that she couldn't imagine how he would have done this without her because he had nothing ready no food nothing for drinks etc.  He didn't even have enough money to buy the food for the BBQ so she had to pay for it.  He spent A lot of money on the beer though.  That was the first thing he bought.

I know I am coming off as bitter and mean and intrusive to their lives but I have lived with listening to her sorrows over him for a long time and I am just exhausted of all of this crap really and truly.... I've tried to help in many ways but ultimately it isn't my decision to live with an alcoholic that doesn't want to change..

[Arkandeus]

this is like learning to walk....you will fall from time to time. 

you are very conscious of what happened and your desire to change and become better is the sign that you will learn an enormous amount from this and overcome this sort of behavior eventually. 

you can't do more then that, don't feel too guilty, your ego is the one making this hurt, putting pressure on you that you should've ''known better''. 
this is a long road, as long as your intent is in the right place you will get there, don't panic when you have drawbacks, the car is turning around slowly but surely and the more you go the more you accelerate. 

how wonderful it is that you are so conscious and that you care so much about the way you affect the people around you. 
an error is just, an error...it never defines you, you can learn from it, if you feel you hurt someone you can talk to them and express your feelings. 

where will you prove the strength of your heart, the strength of your belief in yourself but in those moments of weakness? 
be grateful for it is a chance to enlighten yourself even more. 

Who are you in rapport to this event?
What kind of reaction will you take, that most clearly reflects the type of person you are? 
Are you able to be forgiving towards yourself?to never stop believing in yourself? to forgive others?
good luck

[SOUL]

I know it may be easier to say than to do but don't beat yourself up over it.

It was just a moment in passing and now that moment has passed so just let it stay passed, focus instead on the present moment..

It doesn't help in creating more suffering for something that happened in the past whether the event is 3 days past or 3 years or 3 decades.

We all do things that we may not intend to do but it happens anyway.

Forgive yourself, clear it from your mind and move on.

[philosogi]

11 hours ago, LRyan said:

I'm just referring to the notion that we are all energy/consciousness and that I believe we are all part of an intelligent universal system where there are no accidents and everything has a purpose.  I can't prove that and you're right, it is a belief I have.  What do mean by take away my agency?  Can you please explain?

I agree that there are no accidents and everything has a purpose, in the sense that the state of "is"-ness is a direct result of the last state of "is"-ness, and so on. A giant complex system of relationships between energies. But it is usually a trap when an ego (i.e., an individual) uses this for its own purposes.

What I mean by take away agency is, you're most powerful when you know you are the most powerful. Power in the sense of knowing you are in harmony with the state of "is"-ness. If you're in harmony, the universe will seem to work with you. But what's really happening is that you're working with the universe. It's a paradox of assuming the least amount of control and having the most amount of power. This is very easily misunderstood/misused and there are many ego traps here. A good guiding principle is: if you're using an idea or concept to justify an action (or an inaction), you're probably not in harmony with "is"-ness. Listening and being hyper-aware of the energies around you can help with feeling your way to what the universe (or intelligent universal system) "wants" to do. Action is not always the answer.

On the subject of the complex bind you're in with your family, you have my sympathies. It's a tough spot to be in. I can see how that would be very frustrating and painful. I think the best way to support your daughter is to start dealing with your relationship with her husband as well as with her in a healthy way. I don't mean any specific method by this. I think you'll have to explore to find the best way of going about it.

[LRyan]

6 hours ago, Arkandeus said:

where will you prove the strength of your heart, the strength of your belief in yourself but in those moments of weakness? 
be grateful for it is a chance to enlighten yourself even more. 

Who are you in rapport to this event?
What kind of reaction will you take, that most clearly reflects the type of person you are? 
Are you able to be forgiving towards yourself?to never stop believing in yourself? to forgive others?
good luck

@Arkandeus @SOUL

Thank you both so much for your kindness and your thoughts on what happened.  I have learned a lot from all of you and it is helping me not to crucify myself.  If this was two months ago I would have been in very bad shape, mentally punishing myself but I know that things that seem "bad" happen for a reason and this might be a time as you both said, for me to learn how to forgive myself.  I'm not very good at that. I do believe that we need these tests of faith, faith in the universe that nothing is ever wrong and that love is what matters.  If I was loving towards myself I would have never responded in this manner and actually this was a response that is way out of character for me.  Weird things are happening to me.  I find myself doing things that I would never have considered before.  It is as if I am putting theses challenges out there for myself so I grow and learn.  It is strange what has been happening to me but I believe it is a period of health growth.

I believe I am learning to love and trust that I am whole and perfect as I am and if I embrace that, I will have peace.  I was putting my daughter's happiness above my own.  In trying to make her happy, I created turmoil for myself.  But the turmoil was an opportunity for me to reflect on why this happened to me, what was the cause and effect.  I can understand why this occurred.  I think this looks like the opportunity I've been waiting for to grow to love myself and that in doing that, find inner peace.  Does that make sense?  I can see no other learning or lesson.  I have given myself to others for my entire life so far but I believe my lessons are to come back to my center and be peace, for myself...which will serve everyone.

Namaste!

[LRyan]

1 hour ago, philosogi said:

What I mean by take away agency is, you're most powerful when you know you are the most powerful. Power in the sense of knowing you are in harmony with the state of "is"-ness. If you're in harmony, the universe will seem to work with you. But what's really happening is that you're working with the universe. It's a paradox of assuming the least amount of control and having the most amount of power. This is very easily misunderstood/misused and there are many ego traps here. A good guiding principle is: if you're using an idea or concept to justify an action (or an inaction), you're probably not in harmony with "is"-ness. Listening and being hyper-aware of the energies around you can help with feeling your way to what the universe (or intelligent universal system) "wants" to do. Action is not always the answer.

On the subject of the complex bind you're in with your family, you have my sympathies. It's a tough spot to be in. I can see how that would be very frustrating and painful. I think the best way to support your daughter is to start dealing with your relationship with her husband as well as with her in a healthy way. I don't mean any specific method by this. I think you'll have to explore to find the best way of going about it.

Thanks for your reply!  I get what your point is of by relinquishing power and giving up the need or search or thought that you can obtain power, you then become powerful.  That resonates with me.  I believe this was meant to happen to show the result of a lack of self love in myself and that it is totally fine to do things that in our own best interest and it's ok...it is not the ego, it's self love.  This is what I believe.  I put my love for her desires above my own self love and I got punished for it.

It is not my job to change the world as they say and until my son in law shows some effort, any effort at all, I will keep away from that part of her life and not get pulled into the drama because it is their responsibility to figure things out.  I am not a person who digs into peoples lives if I am not asked to help.  I mostly listen and try to offer help.  If none is wanted, then I can't do anything.  

[WaterfallMachine]

 

Man, sounds like a tough situation. Sorry for what's going on.

I remember when I was younger, a teacher announced to us students that she expects more from us. We better learn from our mistakes the first time we make it. We shouldn't be such loud brats. I thought she was wrong. How in the world do a bunch of crazy students become disciplined and quiet in one day? Nearly everything really worthwhile takes time and effort. And lots and lots of mistakes.

There's this advice to different careers and it applies to your life as well. Writers are advised to edit their work over and over for the best work. The best inventors in history weren't overnight successes, but people who patented so many inventions that eventually a few of them would become really influential. Salesmen are advised to try meeting people again and again even if they keep getting rejected. What matters less is what you can't control, what you can't know soon enough and what you can't do soon enough, but what you can control, learning from your mistakes.

Some people blame others too much in their lives and play the victim. Other people put so much blame on themselves that they become too guilty of what has happened. And I think you are this. I understand that it's hard, but your daughter could have done something. Your son in law could have done something else. And your rest of your family could as well. Don't take the blame. Take responsibility and realize you don't have to take responsibility alone.

When I give advice to people like this and these people get better, I don't put all the credit to myself. These people could have just left, denied their problem and did nothing to change it. There was credit in others' action. And in turn, your son in law could have changed even a bit as well. 

Im not saying to be utterly cruel to other people and start the blame game again. Maybe take time to understand that not everything is in your control and what you can't control is something you're not supposed to guilt yourself in.

 

 

[RossE]

I think you're taking too much responsibility for the situation and expecting yourself to free everyone else from all their problems. I can see that you are suffering for this.

Yes, when the urge to exert will and action to help others arises, you should act. But if you cannot help others, if your action does not help, you must become detached. You must realise that some people cannot be helped. You see that their ability to be helped is beyond your control, and maybe theirs too.

You'll develop a taste for when to dip your nose in, these opportunities will present themselves to you. Sometimes help is not required, even if you think it is, if you are convinced it is. Sometimes it appears as if nothing can be done on the surface but just underneath, that person is falling apart.